Talk:Old-school hip hop

untitled

I dont think this page should be built like this and should instead merely serve as a link page to refer to previous decade hiphop pages (90s, 80s, etc).

The problem with the term 'old school' hiphop is that it is constantly redefined with age. There is nothing concrete about the term 'old school'. The distinction of Run DMC, T La Rock etc in 1984 as the shift is pretty clear, but i dont think the term old school is appropriate. New artists consider Run DMC old school. Young hiphop kids dont even know who Run DMC is and refer to Dr Dre and Snoop as old school. The term old school will constantly shift regardless of anyone trying to apply it as a label to any hiphop era, it simply wont stick over time.

- dennis518 3/21/2010

Get some citations to back up your points - there are multiple reliable sources that say that old school is a fixed period from the mid 70s to '84, so you'd need a lot of evidence from reliable sources to back up the claim that it is a shifting time frame. Crateescape101 (talk) 09:04, 21 March 2010 (UTC)

How can "rhyming and stealing" be old school if old school doesn't involve samples or electronic beats? Its beat exclusively involves sampling. That doesn't make any sense.

I agree.

I can't find any background info on Alton Clarke as mentioned right at the top of the page. Isn't this just spam? I didn't revert as it has survived the last 5+ edits or so, maybe someone more closely associated with this article make a judgment call on that. -- paul079 --UPDATE: Deleted reference after all. Cannot find any usable reference.

Moving article

Any objections to moving this to article old school hip hop music?

Reasons:

• This article deals with old school hip hop music only, which is fine by me, but I don't think it should occupy this title, as there are many other aspects of hip hop which can also be "old school".

- Wintran 14:30, 20 March 2006 (UTC)

I disagree. If you think it should cover stuff besides music, then add that stuff.--Urthogie 15:19, 20 March 2006 (UTC)

The thing is, I'm working on a new article for hip hop dance, and that article will itself cover both old school and new school hip hop dance styles. In the beginning there will not be enough information to separate these sections into different articles.

Basically, my idea is that the main article of each hip hop subject, such as hip hop music, hip hop dance, hip hop fashion etc, explains the full history and various "eras" of the current subject. If, for example, an old school section grows too big, this could be expanded into a separate article, such as old school hip hop music or hip hop music (old school) (not sure which is the preferred style). The article called old school hip hop could simply be a disambiguation page and/or give a summary of old school hip hop culture in general, with links to more specific articles, such as old school hip hop music.

Maybe this should be further discussed at the Wikipedia:WikiProject Hip Hop, as this concerns all of the hip hop articles?

As a side note: In the case of this article it might be better to try to merge it with the original hip hop music, because it currently looks like the latter contains more information on this subject (excluding the sound samples and list of artists). Either that or move most of the old school-text from hip hop music to here, because we should really avoid duplication.

- Wintran 17:22, 20 March 2006 (UTC)

At wikipedia, the way it works is when a section of a large article gets too big, we summarize that section and supply a link in the form of

See also: examplelink

or

Main article: examplelink

.

That is why this article was created-- the section on old school hip hop somewhere else got too big. By this same logic, it would make sense to create an article called old school hip hop music if, and only if, a section on the music in this article becomes too big.--Urthogie 18:00, 20 March 2006 (UTC)

Yes, that's how I assumed it worked as well, but where's this "somewhere else" that led to the creation of this article? I would assume hip hop culture, but the only place I find is hip hop music which also contains much more than a summary in its old school section. You're right that this article is meant to be an extension of another article, but it's currently only an extension of hip hop music and should therefore be called old school hip hop music.

It might be wise to let old school hip hop redirect to old school hip hop music for a while, however, as many other articles link here. When a section about old school hip hop appears in hip hop culture, we could redirect old school hip hop there instead, until that section grows big enough to justify its own article about general old school hip hop, like you said.

- Wintran 21:01, 20 March 2006 (UTC)

Wait a sec though. Look what links here: Special:Whatlinkshere/Old_school_hip_hop. Stuff like breakdancing, among other things. Old school hip hop refers to the culture and the music of the time, I think.--Urthogie 21:16, 20 March 2006 (UTC)

Well, actually breakdancing links here because of Template:Hiphop, but what I meant was articles that have the "Main article: old school hip hop" thing in them.

You're totally right that "old school hip hop" can refer to both the music and the culture of a certain time, but the thing is that there are so many things that can be old school in hip hop. I mean, you could say that there is old school dancing (such as breakdancing), old school music, old school fashion and so on. If you were talking to people about hip hop dancing, it'd be enough to say "old school hip hop", and people would understand that you are referring to the dance. However, in Wikipedia I think it's best to be as clear as possible, especially as we are so dependant on article titles. That's why I think we should be careful and only use "hip hop" as a general term for all parts of hip hop culture, and "hip hop music" and "hip hop dance" for the music and dance specifically (and so on).

- Wintran 21:38, 20 March 2006 (UTC)

Ok lemme explain how I see it-- I think the current name refers to a historical era within the movement. Hence, I would think it makes sense to address the fashion, music, and culture of this era. Do you agree?what'syour view?--Urthogie 22:22, 20 March 2006 (UTC)

I see what you mean, and I agree with your definition of "old school hip hop". The problem has more to do with what information should be in what article, and I think this is where we don't agree.

Let me try to sort out both of our ideas how to organize these articles (please correct me if I got something wrong):

1. Old school hip hop explains the old school era of hip hop dance, music, fashion and so on. Hip hop dance, hip hop music and hip hop fashion all links to old school hip hop. If a certain section gets too large, create new more specific articles, such as old school hip hop music.
2. Each hip hop article has their own old-/new school sections (maybe under a history section) that explains the specific subject during these eras, except hip hop culture which contains more of a summary of all subjects of hip hop. When a section grows to large, a new more specific article is created, such as old school hip hop music.

I find number two to be a bit more easier to maintain, and I find it more logical, but that's just my view.

- Wintran 00:00, 21 March 2006 (UTC)

The music is old school rap, which this article describes. The culture is old school hip hop, which includes music, breakdancing and fashion, so the current title is incorrect.184.147.239.84 (talk) 17:19, 3 July 2014 (UTC)

Citing

Not sure exactly how to cite it, but old school referring to 90's hip hop is used on many radio stations and tv channels, it's used on BET, sometimes MTV2, etc. Yanksta x 19:51, 2 April 2006 (UTC)

A google search that could be used for this site could be 'inurl:bet.com "old school"'--Urthogie 21:56, 2 April 2006 (UTC)

remove dr.dre from the artist list please he is not old school

That brings up a good question: are early gangsta rappers like NWA, Too Short and Ice T considered old school hip hop? They are on the list as of this current posting153.18.17.22 19:08, 12 March 2007 (UTC)

Musical characteristics and themes

' Much of the subject matter of old school hip hop centers around partying and having a good time.[2] One notable exception is the song "The Message" '

How about "White Lines" by Grandmaster Flash & the Furious Five? An anti-drug track. — Preceding unsigned comment added by LewisR (talk • contribs) 22:20, 29 May 2011 (UTC)

Old Skool

Is there any place that lists it as Old Skool? That's what I call it, but I'm not sure if I got it somewhere or just thought it'd be cool to make it look more "urban".

"Old skool" as opposed to "old school"? The main "old school" page tells a bit about it, but it doesn't seem to mean exactly the same thing as "old school hip hop". Λυδαcιτγ 01:21, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

I found it's on AOL Radio. 67.188.172.165 20:31, 26 June 2006 (UTC)

Redundancy

Ive noticed that there are numerous sections of the article in which text is repeated word-for-word in a second, often consecutive, paragraph. I feel that this presents a very redundant and somewhat careless feel for the article, and should be altered accordingly. 216.36.17.5 22:21, 15 October 2006 (UTC)

Please alter then. ReverendG 22:29, 15 October 2006 (UTC)

Deleting

I'm deleting non-old school artists from the list now. Wathiik 11:56, 30 December 2006 (UTC)

N.W.A. part of old school hip hop?

Is N.W.A. an oldschool hip hop group? Some people think so, some people think not. They are listed as of this posting. They formed in 1986. Please discuss so I can know whether to remove them or not68.165.3.98 02:24, 16 April 2007 (UTC)

Old school hip hop died around 1983/84. Groups like Boogie Down Productions and Run-DMC often claimed they were from the NEW school, not the old school. Original/old school hip hop peaked in the early 80s and then died, hard, when breakdancing became the in thing and then the out thing.

Old school hip hop didn't die in 83/84. Hip hop just started in 1979 so there really wasn't old school hip hop back then. It will never die! As long as there is hip hop, there will be old school. About 20 years from now, our rap will be old school.(Wiz Kalifah, Snoop Dog, Tyler the Creator etc.) Just because Run DMC said he was new school then, that was back then! Now he's old school. 166.82.187.246 (talk) 01:54, 26 December 2011 (UTC)

Calling rap artists like Run DMC, BDP, or A Tribe Called Quest "old school" is like calling Abe Lincoln one of the Founding Fathers.

Yes because most of the almost 6 billion people elsewhere in the world can name the "founding fathers" —Preceding unsigned comment added by 138.251.229.70 (talk) 01:09, 25 September 2007 (UTC)

"Old school" is NOT a strictly defined era. The terms 'old school' and 'new school' were first popularized around the mid 1980's and a lot of MC's at that time referred to themselves as "new school" but they were "new school" then! In the 1990's we always considered EVERYTHING before 1990 as "old school"...I'm older, so I'll always consider anything after the 1980's as "new school" but just as my generation changed the definition the younger generation will define the current definition...to them the 1990's IS 'old school'. HipHop has gone through so many stages through the years that I think it is very limiting to only separate it by "old school" and "new school". There has to be a better way to separate the many different eras. The Temple of HipHop had a decent breakdown years ago but that info has since disappeared. An earlier commenter used some quotes from rap songs as proof to a definite time frame for 'old school'...here is another quote from a respected MC that says different: "Rap is still an art, and no-one's from the Old School 'cause Rap is still a brand-new tool. I say no-one's from the Old School 'cause Rap on a whole isn't even twenty years old. Fifty years down the line, you can start this 'cause we'll be the Old School artists." - KRS ONE, 1988 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 184.76.78.202 (talk) 00:04, 30 September 2010 (UTC)

I would say yes, NWA is old school. They formed in the 80's! Anything 1999(90's) and back is old school I would say.166.82.187.246 (talk) 23:17, 23 December 2011 (UTC)

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Old School/New School

I disagree where the article says new school started in 1984.They are kind of saying that Run DMC started and is the reason for New School. No one started new school. New school is just the era your in. The old school rappers would consider themselves new school, back then. But now there old school. Mainly because most of them retired, they've been raping for more than 10 years, or maybe because that wasn't in the 2000, 2010 decade. New School would mainly be considered as 2000 through now. Mainly because were still in the 2000s.(I know were in the 2010s)So I would consider Old School as 1979-1999. 166.82.187.246 (talk) 01:55, 26 December 2011 (UTC)