Talk:City upon a Hill

Use in American Politics - Edits

Is it available to add other presidents in this part? Which presients are recommended to be added to this?

Here is my complement of Reagan and new adding for Clinton, Bush and Obama.

Ronald Reagan counters President Jimmy Carter's rhetoric about a national "crisis of confidence" with paeans to American greatness during the presidential campaign. "I've always believed that this blessed land was set apart in a special way," Reagan later explains.The final days of the Cold War raise the prospect that the American model could become the norm, not the exception.

...In my mind it was a tall, proud city built on rocks stronger than oceans, wind-swept, God-blessed, and teeming with people of all kinds living in harmony and peace...

In 1996, President Bill Clinton declares that:

..."America remains the indispensable nation" and that "there are times when America, and only America, can make a difference between war and peace, between freedom and repression"...

During the struggle for the Republican nomination in 1999, Gary Bauer used the same image and explicitly presented himself as a Reagan devotee;[5] he used the phrase three times during his stump speech, and according to The New York Times simply stole them from Reagan.[6] President Reagan's adopted son Michael Reagan wrote a book entitled The City on a Hill: Fulfilling Ronald Reagan's Vision for America (1997.)

In 2000,George W. Bush speechwriter, contends in a Weekly Standard article that there are two competing visions of internationalism in the 21st century: the "'global multilateralism' of the Clinton-Gore Democrats" vs. the "'American exceptionalism' of the Reagan-Bush Republicans."In 2004, Presdent George W. Bush says:

...But of course, America is an unlikely place - a country built on defiance of the odds; on a belief in the impossible. And I remind you of this because as you set out to live your own stories of success and achievement, it's now your turn to help keep it this way.Like generations before us, we have a calling from beyond the stars to stand for freedom. This is the everlasting dream of America...

...No one can keep the bright from shining...

On the speech of Commencement on June 2, 2006 in the University of Massachusetts at Boston Commencement Address,[7] President Barack Obama expressed his idea towards the whole nation:

...But of course, America is an unlikely place - a country built on defiance of the odds; on a belief in the impossible. And I remind you of this because as you set out to live your own stories of success and achievement, it's now your turn to help keep it this way.It's your turn to keep this daringly radical but unfailingly simple notion of America alive - that no matter where you're born or how much your parents have; no matter what you look like or what you believe in, you can still rise to become whatever you want; still go on to achieve great things; still pursue the happiness you hope for.Today, this dream sounds common - perhaps even cliche - yet for most of human history it's been anything but. As a servant of Rome, a peasant in China, or a subject of King George, there were very few unlikely futures. No matter how hard you worked or struggled for something better, you knew you'd spend your life forced to build somebody else's empire; to sacrifice for someone else's cause....

Mengsun945 (talk) 22:50, 6 December 2014 (UTC)

Some of the examples have slid from examples of the use of "city upon a hill" to examples of "American Exceptionalism." It's true that American Exceptionalism is an idea that could be derived from the concept of a city on a hill; however, this section is meant to be examples of the use of the phrase "city upon a hill," not examples of American Exceptionalism. In order to include these examples of American Exceptionalism in this article, there would have to be a reference to a verifiable source making the claim that they are linked. Otherwise it is original research. See WP:No opinion. The City Upon the Hill concept as used in the Bible, and by John Winthrop have to do with the notion that everyone is watching, and perhaps an exhortation to be a model for the rest of the world. Whereas American exceptionalism "is the theory that the United States is inherently different from other nations." I will try to connect these examples more closely to the article's subject, or else I will recommend deletion. Ileanadu (talk) 02:16, 21 November 2015 (UTC)

Here's an article that summarizes the differences between American Exceptionalism and the City Upon a Hill as used by Winthrop:

"...Winthrop's remains the ultimate inaugural address: the one that inaugurated everything. And it's the one we most need to hear again with fresh ears -- because it's also the speech that everyone seems to get completely wrong. ... [It] unfairly gets the rap for the idea of American exceptionalism. ... The first great American political speech, it is terrifying in its humility. Winthrop gave that speech not to pound his chest but to beat it. If we aren't humble and meek -- at least in Winthrop's telling -- the good ship Arbella could well end up at the bottom of the sea." http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2013/01/our-first-and-scariest-inaugural-address-courtesy-of-the-puritans/267299/ — Preceding unsigned comment added by Ileanadu (talk • contribs) 19:20, 23 November 2015 (UTC)

The quote from the 1989 speech is placed in the article before the earlier 1984 quote. Should be the other way around. So I switched them.

There is a statement about Reagan contrasting his view of American Exceptionalism with Carter's. If it's left in, it needs a reference. There's also a quote that needs a reference. Both of these statements are not on point with the City upon a hill concept and relate more to the concept of American Exceptionalism. The City Upon a Hill, as used by John Winthrop, Kennedy and Reagan, is first, a recognition that the eyes of the world are watching the US, and second, an exhortation to shine, to be an example for the rest of the world. American Exceptionalism is a claim that we have achieved this goal possibly under divine guidance.

As I noted before in order for these two sentences to be included there needs to be something in the article connecting the two concepts, and a reference cited for support. I found this as a possible source for the quote:

Ronald Reagan's Wisdom for the Twenty, edited by Charlotte Livingston. See page 21:

https://books.google.com/books?id=VorInouRJicC&pg=PA21&lpg=PA21&dq=I%27ve+always+believed+that+this+blessed+land+was+set+apart+in+a+special+way&source=bl&ots=ixjsmRCeRV&sig=7PXZMyLUnz2-aAVa62zuE4viRxI&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwj4ttn2wKDJAhUCUD4KHTrmC6kQ6AEILDAD#v=onepage&q=I've%20always%20believed%20that%20this%20blessed%20land%20was%20set%20apart%20in%20a%20special%20way&f=false

As to the City upon a hill, searching in this book I found a much earlier reference on page 45. It's supposedly from a 1980 election eve speech. We don't have to include every use in the article, but if there was an earlier mention than 1984, isn't that significant?

https://books.google.com/books?id=VorInouRJicC&pg=PA21&lpg=PA21&dq=I%27ve+always+believed+that+this+blessed+land+was+set+apart+in+a+special+way&source=bl&ots=ixjsmRCeRV&sig=7PXZMyLUnz2-aAVa62zuE4viRxI&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwj4ttn2wKDJAhUCUD4KHTrmC6kQ6AEILDAD#v=onepage&q=city%20upon%20a%20hill&f=false

I'm going to add this quote because it both ties to John Winthrop and sets out Reagan's view of the USA. I may take out one of the other two quotes, because they are all 3 examples of Reagan's view of America. Ileanadu (talk) 13:14, 21 November 2015 (UTC)

Wrong Source?

The phrase city upon a hill also is an important part of the preceding Old Testament verses Isaiah 2.2 and Micah 4.5. In other speeches In other speeches, Winthrop clearly states the relation of his use of the phrase with Micah, not the Sermon on the Mount, as this Wikipedia article claims.

“We shall be as a city upon a hill…”, Jonathan Winthrop

Now the onely way to… provide for our posterity, is to followe the counsell of Micah, to doe justly, to love mercy, to walk humbly with our God. For this end, wee must be knitt together, in this worke, as one man. Wee must entertaine each other in brotherly affection. Wee must be willing to abridge ourselves of our superfluities, for the supply of other's necessities. Wee must uphold a familiar commerce together in all meekeness, gentlenes, patience and liberality. Wee must delight in eache other; make other's conditions our oune; rejoice together, mourne together, labour and suffer together, allwayes haueving before our eyes our commission and community in the worke, as members of the same body. Soe shall wee keepe the unitie of the spirit in the bond of peace. As the God of the Old Testament held out the choice between good and evil to the children of Israel on the threshold of the Promised Land, so did He to these new Israelites. If people act for and with each other, The Lord will be our God, and delight to dwell among us, as his oune people, and will command a blessing upon us in all our wayes. Soe that wee shall see much more of his wisdome, power, goodness and truthe, than formerly wee haue been acquainted with. Wee shall finde that the God of Israell is among us, when ten of us shall be able to resist a thousand of our enemies; when hee shall make us a prayse and glory that men shall say of succeeding plantations, "the Lord make it likely that of New England." For wee must consider that wee shall be as a citty upon a hill. The eies of all people are uppon us. (p 47)

Page references are to John Winthrop’s sermon aboard the Arbella, before his reinforcements to the Puritan settlement landed in the Massachusetts Bay Colony, 1630, “A Modell of Christian Charity,” Collections of the Massachusetts Historical Society, Boston, 1838, 3rd series 7:31-48. http://history.hanover.edu/texts/winthmod.html — Preceding unsigned comment added by 65.112.10.39 (talk) 21:19, 1 December 2014 (UTC)

Yes, it is wrong and the link is invalid.Mengsun945 (talk) 22:54, 6 December 2014 (UTC)

Neutrality disputed

This page needs a notice saying "the neutrality of this article is disputed" —Preceding unsigned comment added by 205.213.97.35 (talk) 14:59, 27 March 2008 (UTC)

Which part? -LlywelynII (talk) 22:46, 15 February 2010 (UTC)

Title

Should this be "City on a Hill", "City Set Upon a Hill", "City set upon a hill", or what? -- Someone else 22:01, 12 Sep 2003 (UTC)

Good question. People are just so weird in this community

Just as a suggestion, I think City upon a Hill might be best, since what Winthrop actually wrote was "Citty upon a Hill". With redirects all around for City on a Hill, City set upon a Hill, City set on a Hill, etc.

John Winthrop's City upon a Hill, 1630

Now the onely way to avoyde this shipwracke and to provide for our posterity is to followe the Counsell of Micah, to doe Justly, to love mercy, to walke humbly with our God, for this end, wee must be knitt together in this worke as one man, wee must entertaine each other in brotherly Affeccion, wee must be willing to abridge our selves of our superfluities, for the supply of others necessities, wee must uphold a familiar Commerce together in all meekenes, gentlenes, patience and liberallity, wee must delight in eache other, make others Condicions our owne rejoyce together, mourne together, labour, and suffer together, allwayes haveing before our eyes our Commission and Community in the worke, our Community as members of the same body, soe shall wee keepe the unitie of the spirit in the bond of peace, the Lord will be our God and delight to dwell among us, as his owne people and will commaund a blessing upon us in all our wayes, soe that wee shall see much more of his wisdome power goodnes and truthe then formerly wee have beene acquainted with, wee shall finde that the God of Israell is among us, when tenn of us shall be able to resist a thousand of our enemies, when hee shall make us a prayse and glory, that men shall say of succeeding plantacions: the lord make it like that of New England: for wee must Consider that wee shall be as a Citty upon a Hill, the eies of all people are uppon us; soe that if wee shall deale falsely with our god in this worke wee have undertaken and soe cause him to withdrawe his present help from us, wee shall be made a story and a byword through the world, wee shall open the mouthes of enemies to speake evill of the wayes of god and all professours for Gods sake; wee shall shame the faces of many of gods worthy servants, and cause theire prayers to be turned into Cursses upon us till wee be consumed out of the good land whether wee are going: And to shutt upp this discourse with that exhortacion of Moses that faithfull servant of the Lord in his last farewell to Israell Deut. 30. Beloved there is now sett before us life, and good, deathe and evill in that wee are Commaunded this day to love the Lord our God, and to love one another to walke in his wayes and to keepe his Commaundements and his Ordinance, and his lawes, and the Articles of our Covenant with him that wee may live and be multiplyed, and that the Lord our God may blesse us in the land whether wee goe to possesse it: But if our heartes shall turne away soe that wee will not obey, but shall be seduced and worshipp other Gods our pleasures, and proffitts, and serve them, it is propounded unto us this day, wee shall surely perishe out of the good Land whether wee passe over this vast Sea to possesse it; Therefore lett us choose life, that wee, and our Seede, may live; by obeyeing his voyce, and cleaveing to him, for hee is our life, and our prosperity.

-- Someone else 22:14, 12 Sep 2003 (UTC)

Okay. Will do. Also, where did you get that excerpt? Would it be OK to incorporate parts of it into the article? --Alex S 22:19, 12 Sep 2003 (UTC)

That's from here. I'm sure that a 1630 text is public domain, I put it on talk just cause it wouldn't generally be considered acceptable to have the whole thing in the article.

P.S. I saw one website where this sermon was called "A Model of Christian Charity" but I don't know if that's a common name for it or not.

note from [cnelson]: "A Model of Christian Charity" is the actual sermon. In ap language arts, we had to read it and discussed it in relation to the US's moral superiority. In our book (The Norton anthology of american literature) it is title this.

As cnelson notes, it is the title of the sermon, but neither the common name nor the common phrase nor the common cause of links to this page. Moving the entire thing to a section of American Exceptionalism would be more appropriate. -LlywelynII (talk) 21:42, 15 February 2010 (UTC)

This article shouldn't be called "City on a Hill" at all, but instead should be "A Model of Christian Charity" since that is the actual name of Winthrop's sermon. Secondly, the sermon primarily focuses on the treatment of the poor. This is overlooked by most people in favor of focusing on the one statement that Puritans should be a "city on a hill" because it is a more famous yet more controversial statement. This article should maintain the true focus of the sermon and discuss it as a whole instead of examining this one phrase. Perhaps, also, this article should split into one about the phrase "city on a hill" and one about "A Model of Christian Charity". 99.69.66.79 (talk) 18:51, 12 October 2009 (UTC)

Your last point answers your first two. This article is about the concept. You're welcome to start one on just the sermon. -LlywelynII (talk) 21:42, 15 February 2010 (UTC)

Peter Bulkeley

FWIW, ten years later in 1640 Peter Bulkeley, a prominent New Englander, wrote, "We are as a city set upon a hill, in the open view of all the earth; the eyes of the world are upon us because we profess ourselves to be a people in covenant with God, and therefore not only the Lord our God, with whom we have made covenant, but heaven and earth, angels and men, that are witnesses of our profession, will cry shame upon us, if we walk contrary to the covenant which we have professed and promised to walk in." -- Someone else 22:22, 12 Sep 2003 (UTC)

Thanks. --Alex S 22:32, 12 Sep 2003 (UTC)

Glad to help. Also, I think I remember Ronald Reagan making a "City on a Hill" speech, and I think there was a filmed documentary with that title, though I think it used it ironically. -- Someone else 22:40, 12 Sep 2003 (UTC)

Your thoughts

Do you believe that modern america could be considered a city upon a hill in winthrops view?

Winthrop's sermon is a very misinterpreted piece of literature. Sometime when I have more time I will have to rewrite this article. Winthrop never intended America to be an example for the rest of the world. If you want to know more, read Perry Miller's An Errand into the Wilderness, as well as articles debating him. If you need more help just ask. --Lord Voldemort 20:51, 13 Jun 2005 (UTC)

My mistake... I meant Miller's Marrow of Puritan Divinity. Sorry for the mistake. --Lord Voldemort 20:56, 13 Jun 2005 (UTC)

It's been rewritten since you wrote that, Voldemort. It did misinterpret the statement; it now more nearly reflects his original meaning. Please discuss if you plan to revise the interpretation substantially. flux.books 21:48, 12 February 2006 (UTC)

Missing context

This page really needs more background information; possibly about what else was going on in America, and Great Britain. -Cmbankester 12:34, 26 Sept 2007 (UTC)

William Penn / POV article

William Penn used the phrase too. I think this is a very biased article. 129.107.240.248 19:36, 19 January 2006 (UTC)

Sources, links, facts - anything other than your own opinion? The phrase is in the bible, so it probably inspired other commentary. But there's no question this is the most cited reference to the phrase.

Vandalism

I deleted another vandalistic edit in the page. At the bottom it simply said 'yeahh' I believe this is in breach of policy.Tuesday, May 15 07 -Rob

as Noah's fellow men learned the hard way

"Of course, breaking a covenant with God has dire results (as Noah's fellow men learned the hard way)." Is this really fit for an encyclopedia? 209.6.3.46 01:46, 13 July 2007 (UTC)

Do you really need to ask? :) -LlywelynII (talk) 21:42, 15 February 2010 (UTC)

"Stable Society"?

"molded an extremely stable and rigidly-structured society" I wouldn't say the Puritans were always very stable. Bradford discusses outbreaks of "wickedness" and they had many cases of bestiality along with other problems. They did everything to remain stable but eventually their society fell apart.--Krezer 01:17, 17 October 2007 (UTC)

Jeremiah 30:18

Is there any recognized connection to Jeremiah 30:18 —Preceding unsigned comment added by Fundamentisto (talk • contribs) 22:59, 20 June 2009 (UTC)

Eisenhower

Someone has pointed out that General Eisenhower used the phrase "City Upon a Hill" in an address to the troops on the eve of the invasion of Normandy. Does anyone have information on this? - Dolores119

I don't, but that would be pretty major, yeah. -LlywelynII (talk) 22:46, 15 February 2010 (UTC)

History of Puritanism

The edit prior to mine made many fine, unsourced, original points about the nature of Puritanism, its history, and its true nature versus common misconceptions. Wonderful if someone needs a term paper.

Sadly, poorly wikied and almost zero relation to this article. -LlywelynII (talk) 22:44, 15 February 2010 (UTC)

Block Quotes of Entire Speeches

Bad. -LlywelynII (talk) 22:44, 15 February 2010 (UTC)

Improvements

I'm willing to accept that the JFK and Reagan uses were the most important for reviving the idea and recontextualizing it to its modern meaning of America as an example of liberty, democracy, and ... well, American values (although Lincoln never mentioned it? Really?) but it'd be nice to have some commentary and sources about that. -LlywelynII (talk) 22:44, 15 February 2010 (UTC)

A Modell of Christian Charity

In response to a question above, my subject line is the generally used title of the sermon, at least in all of the anthologies in which I've encountered and taught it. In this, I'm thinking of the anthology I use now, The Heath Anthology of American Literature (5th), but also the McGraw Hills The American Tradition in Literature (12th) and The Norton Anthology of American Literature (7th). 168.156.168.253 (talk) 15:22, 23 April 2012 (UTC)bradley bleck

Lack of references, confusing statements, bad quotes.

There seems to be a glaring lack of references here, especially for some of the quotes. The quotes attributed to Bush and Obama are identical, which I assume is incorrect. On the whole, this article seems very confusing and subjective. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Sudzington (talk • contribs) 21:26, 8 February 2015 (UTC)

Wikipedia like article re City on a Hill on SourceWatch website

This looks so much like a Wikipedia article, but it's not. It's from SourceWatch the website for the The Center for Media and Democracy. Anybody know what this is about?

http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php/America_is_a_shining_city_upon_a_hill — Preceding unsigned comment added by Ileanadu (talk • contribs) 17:56, 21 November 2015 (UTC)

This page breaks Wikipedia's site styling

IDK why. However, when viewing this article using the Wikipedia preview feature of the Reddit Enhancement Suite, it reads the following:

"Cite error: There are <ref group=n> tags on this page, but the references will not show without a {{reflist|group=n}} template (see the help page). "

When viewing the site logged out (or possibly simply without having a Wikipedia style that isn't the default), the top right of the site is bugged out:

Screenshot of an incorrectly displaying Wikipedia page taken using Firefox

I don't know why.

This has been fixed (preceding unsigned comment by me) Theanswertolifetheuniverseandeverything (talk) 16:13, 11 March 2022 (UTC)