Talk:History of the People's Socialist Republic of Albania

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The section 'Post-communist Albania' sounds more like democracy report, not history. Not as much the events are reported but Albania's development towards democracy is evaluated. Andres 23:43, 12 Aug 2003 (UTC)

It is a product of the US government. I guess this is what to expect. Please change as needed. --Jiang

Yes, I am going to change it. Andres 00:00, 13 Aug 2003 (UTC)

Pyramid Schemes

I don't think it is correct to say that it was due to Albanian inexperience with capitalism that led to the proliferation and collapse of the pyramid schemes. Those schemes are/were operated even in the United States, but they are illegal in most countries I believe. Most Albanians knew they would collapse, but they were hoping to make some money before they did (and some did profit). Also, the government was involved (i.e. probably bribed), which is why they were not made illegal. I would say the poverty, lazyness, and corruptness more than inexperience brought on those events. --Dori 14:03, 12 Sep 2003 (UTC)

Mercedes Benz

Although it is true that Albania has highest percentage of Mercedes Benz automobilies of any European nation, the article fails to mention that most of these aren't in any sort of working condition and are dumped on the side of the road in various places in Albania. This probably should be pointed out, as at the moment it reads as if there are thousands and thousands of Albanians cruising round in Mercedes Benz.....

Massive POV

I had barely read the first paragraph of this article before I was struck by the anti-communist POV oozing from every sentence. Some major editing work is required. I'll start on it myself, but I won't have the time to complete it in the near future. -- Mihnea Tudoreanu 12:51, 10 Jan 2005 (UTC)

"Hoxha engineered an elaborate cult of personality that elevated his persona to an almost godlike status. When he died in 1985, he was genuinely mourned by the whole nation"

Good job with the NPOV. I'm sure the thousands of political prisoners and victims, and the hundreds of thousands of their relatives "genuinely mourned" him as well. Dori | Talk 21:37, Jan 10, 2005 (UTC)

The original text said "few Albanian eyes were without tears" when he died. I removed the unnecessary metaphor and rephrased the sentence without changing its original meaning. Take up your complaints with the original author, not me.

Also, while I sympathise with your POV, the fact remains that it's still POV, and this is an encyclopedia, not a soapbox. -- Mihnea Tudoreanu 21:55, 10 Jan 2005 (UTC)

Actually I think the original, while bad as well (since it didn't mean what I am saying) was better, because you can have tears and not "mourn geuinely", especially if they're tears of joy. Dori | Talk 21:58, Jan 10, 2005 (UTC)

Well, then the original sentence was simply very confusing - thus being completely unencyclopedic. At any rate, I'll go do a bit of light editing to remove the "genuinely mourned" part. Since you're Albanian, you could help with NPOVing the rest of the article... Unless you were the one who wrote it in the first place, of course, which might lead to a bit of a problem. -- Mihnea Tudoreanu 22:11, 10 Jan 2005 (UTC)

Done. The end of the first paragraph now reads:

"Throughout all this, Hoxha engineered an elaborate cult of personality that elevated his persona to an almost godlike status. When he died in 1985, grandiose nation-wide mourning ceremonies were organized."

-- 22:20, 10 Jan 2005 (UTC)

Much better, although I find the godlike bit a tad weird considering that he outlawed the practice of religion and declared Albania an atheist nation. I didn't write it, and I've mostly stayed away because I don't think I could do a good NPOV copyedit on it. Dori | Talk 22:34, Jan 10, 2005 (UTC)

I don't like the adjective "godlike" myself, but it's a leftover from the original version of the paragraph - I couldn't think of any other word to use. Do you have any suggestions? -- Mihnea Tudoreanu 23:01, 10 Jan 2005 (UTC)

I don't know, infallible maybe? Dori | Talk 23:10, Jan 10, 2005 (UTC)

Ok, how about "Throughout all this, Hoxha engineered an elaborate cult of personality that elevated him to the status of an infallible leader"? -- Mihnea Tudoreanu 23:27, 10 Jan 2005 (UTC)

Also is worth mentioning that most of these cars are old models and made before 1994

On the benz mercedes issue

Dear Sir madam

The article is well crafted but there are some misssing points.From 1992 to 1996 most economic reforms in Albania were driven from the FMN and the piramidal schemes burned out only the Albanias who belived in them. Even today from the international bodies that assisted Albania with the precious advices and plenty of knowledge not a word on the Pyramidal schemes not apologise or explanation of what really happened not a single word. In the piramidal schemes were involved a lot of regional actors as well from the grecce to Serbia or ex- yougoslavia. There was a amount of at least 4.5 billion USD not to speculate for a bigger amount because only the international bodies and others nows the real amount of mmoney involved in this piramidal schemes.

For the benz mercedes story is a well known fact that the taxes on the cars utility in Albania are not as high as in other countries and the Benz -mercedes is the only car that can give security and is very strong to resist to the roads in the bad shape in Albania.

For the drugs issue yoy better check with the International Europian Mafia. Some points are that drugs are passing through Albania. But the byers and the distributors are in the west.Italy, Germany, France etc. The heroin passes from Afganistan in 10 or more countries before to arrive in Albania so the gentelmen who writes on the Albanian factor in the drug trade or is ignorant or is mean in its intentions. The only drug that is produced in Albania is the hashash. The ashash has been in use in this refions from the past before that the laws to consider it illegal existed . The comunnist regime in Albania was a hibrid of Greek Orthodoxy mixed with Slavic Makbeth thurst of Blood. Most of the governs of the past in Albania were formed from the non-albanians. See the names and statistics on it. Many sfortunes to the albanians came from deatachment from the chatolich branch and the weekness of the Roman Chatolich in Front of atavism orthodoxy of the last period of the history. If the Chatolichs and Protestants would have been strong in the Balkan Area the Albania would have prospered more and for better.

Copyright

Most of the article appears to have been copied from the Library of Congress Country Studies.

Official works of the U.S. government are free from copyright in most cases... AnonMoos 16:26, 12 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

This is good and referenced

The years of the Socialist People's Republic of Albania

From 1944 to 1991, Albania became a Communist country, suffering a Stalinist^[1] totalitarian regime classified as one of the most repressive^[2]. A one party-state political system was adopted, and Enver Hoxha promoted himself 1st Secretary of the Albanian Communist Party, Head of the State and Commander in Chief of the Armed Foces. In 1961, he broke with Albania’s closest ally, the Soviet Union, accusing Nikita Khrushchev of abandoning Stalinism. Subsequently, Albania’s closest ally^[3] became the People’s Republic of China. However, the Chinese established diplomatic relations with US in 1978, Hoxha denounced even the new friendship and decided to pursue a policy of self-reliance. The result was an extreme isolation^[4]^[5] that led to misery, further financial, psychological^[6] and material ruin for the Albanian citizens.Even imaginary Illyrian names were added to the populace^[7].All minorities were suppressed^[8]^[9]^[10] and their ethnic charakter altered. Huge funds were spent between 1974 and 1986 to build approximately 700,000 concrete bunkers (pill-boxes) to defend the country against a hypothetic multi-front attack. Upon Hoxha’s death in 1985, Ramiz Alia succeeded him as State and communist party leader. Alia was Hoxha’s protégé, but was less repressive than the former leader and tolerated minor insignificant reforms. The process was accelerated due to following changes in other communist countries of Central and Eastern Europe.Megistias (talk) 17:30, 22 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

^ Albania: From Anarchy to a Balkan IdentityISBN 1850652791,by Miranda Vickers & James Pettifer, 1999,page 222,"the French Communist Party, then ultra-Stalinist in orientation. He may have owed some aspects of his political thought and general psychology to that"
^ Albania: From Anarchy to a Balkan IdentityISBN 1850652791,by Miranda Vickers & James Pettifer, 1999,,page 138"Because of its association with the years of repression under communism, Albanians have developed an aversion to collective life in any form, even where it"
^ Albania: From Anarchy to a Balkan IdentityISBN 1850652791,by Miranda Vickers & James Pettifer, 1999,page 210,"with the split in the world communist movement it moved into a close relationship with China"
^ Albania: From Anarchy to a Balkan IdentityISBN 1850652791,by Miranda Vickers & James Pettifer, 1999,page 2,"Enver Hoxha's regime was haunted by fears of external intervention and internal subversion. Albania thus became a fortress state"
^ Albania: From Anarchy to a Balkan IdentityISBN 1850652791,by Miranda Vickers & James Pettifer, 1999,page 190,"When ethnic Greeks were caught attempting to escape to Greece,penalties were severe for the actual offender execution was common and his whole family might be condemned in internal exile for many years usually in the mining camps of northern and central albania"
^ Albania: From Anarchy to a Balkan IdentityISBN 1850652791,by Miranda Vickers & James Pettifer, 1999,page 116,"what Enver Hoxha did; brainwashing young people, but to the other extreme."
^ ISBN 960-210-279-9 Miranda Vickers, The Albanians . "Albania Isolates itself" page 196 ,From time to time official lists were published with pagan, so-called Illyrian or freshly minted names considered appropriate for the new breed of revolutionary Albanians.(see also Also Logoreci "the Albanians" page 157.
^ http://www.da.mod.uk/colleges/csrc/document-listings/balkan/G97,onset in 1967 of the campaign by Albania’s communist party,the Albanian Party of Labour (PLA), to eradicate organised religion, a prime target of which was the Orthodox Church.Many churches were damaged or destroyed during this period, and many Greek-language books were banned because of their religious themes or orientation. Yet, as with other communist states, particularly in the Balkans, where measures putatively geared towards the consolidation of political control intersected with the pursuit of national integration, it is often impossible to distinguish sharply between ideological and ethno-cultural bases of repression. This is all the more true in the case of Albania’s anti-religion campaign because it was merely one element in the broader “Ideological and Cultural Revolution” begun by Hoxha in 1966 but whose main features he outlined at the PLA’s Fourth Congress in 1961
^ http://www.da.mod.uk/colleges/csrc/document-listings/balkan/G97,"the area studied was confined to the southern border fringes, and there is good reason to believe that this estimate was very low"."Under this definition, minority status was limited to those who lived in 99 villages in the southern border areas, thereby excluding important concentrations of Greek settlement in Vlora (perhaps 8000 people in 1994) and in adjoining areas along the coast, ancestral Greek towns such as Himara, and ethnic Greeks living elsewhere throughout the country. Mixed villages outside this designated zone, even those with a clear majority of ethnic Greeks, were not considered minority areas and therefore were denied any Greek-language cultural or educational provisions. In addition, many Greeks were forcibly removed from the minority zones to other parts of the country as a product of communist population policy, an important and constant element of which was to pre-empt ethnic sources of political dissent. Greek place-names were changed to Albanian names, while use of the Greek language, prohibited everywhere outside the minority zones, was prohibited for many official purposes within them as well."
^ Albania: From Anarchy to a Balkan IdentityISBN 1850652791,by Miranda Vickers & James Pettifer, 1999,page 201,"They suffered the same cultural repression as other small minorities, in so far as their language had no official status"

[1] Albania: From Anarchy to a Balkan IdentityISBN 1850652791,by Miranda Vickers & James Pettifer, 1999,page 222,"the French Communist Party, then ultra-Stalinist in orientation. He may have owed some aspects of his political thought and general psychology to that"

[2] Albania: From Anarchy to a Balkan IdentityISBN 1850652791,by Miranda Vickers & James Pettifer, 1999,,page 138"Because of its association with the years of repression under communism, Albanians have developed an aversion to collective life in any form, even where it"

[3] Albania: From Anarchy to a Balkan IdentityISBN 1850652791,by Miranda Vickers & James Pettifer, 1999,page 210,"with the split in the world communist movement it moved into a close relationship with China"

[4] Albania: From Anarchy to a Balkan IdentityISBN 1850652791,by Miranda Vickers & James Pettifer, 1999,page 2,"Enver Hoxha's regime was haunted by fears of external intervention and internal subversion. Albania thus became a fortress state"

[5] Albania: From Anarchy to a Balkan IdentityISBN 1850652791,by Miranda Vickers & James Pettifer, 1999,page 190,"When ethnic Greeks were caught attempting to escape to Greece,penalties were severe for the actual offender execution was common and his whole family might be condemned in internal exile for many years usually in the mining camps of northern and central albania"

[6] Albania: From Anarchy to a Balkan IdentityISBN 1850652791,by Miranda Vickers & James Pettifer, 1999,page 116,"what Enver Hoxha did; brainwashing young people, but to the other extreme."

[7] ISBN 960-210-279-9 Miranda Vickers, The Albanians . "Albania Isolates itself" page 196 ,From time to time official lists were published with pagan, so-called Illyrian or freshly minted names considered appropriate for the new breed of revolutionary Albanians.(see also Also Logoreci "the Albanians" page 157.

[8] ttp://www.da.mod.uk/colleges/csrc/document-listings/balkan/G97,onset in 1967 of the campaign by Albania’s communist party,the Albanian Party of Labour (PLA), to eradicate organised religion, a prime target of which was the Orthodox Church.Many churches were damaged or destroyed during this period, and many Greek-language books were banned because of their religious themes or orientation. Yet, as with other communist states, particularly in the Balkans, where measures putatively geared towards the consolidation of political control intersected with the pursuit of national integration, it is often impossible to distinguish sharply between ideological and ethno-cultural bases of repression. This is all the more true in the case of Albania’s anti-religion campaign because it was merely one element in the broader “Ideological and Cultural Revolution” begun by Hoxha in 1966 but whose main features he outlined at the PLA’s Fourth Congress in 1961

[9] ttp://www.da.mod.uk/colleges/csrc/document-listings/balkan/G97,"the area studied was confined to the southern border fringes, and there is good reason to believe that this estimate was very low"."Under this definition, minority status was limited to those who lived in 99 villages in the southern border areas, thereby excluding important concentrations of Greek settlement in Vlora (perhaps 8000 people in 1994) and in adjoining areas along the coast, ancestral Greek towns such as Himara, and ethnic Greeks living elsewhere throughout the country. Mixed villages outside this designated zone, even those with a clear majority of ethnic Greeks, were not considered minority areas and therefore were denied any Greek-language cultural or educational provisions. In addition, many Greeks were forcibly removed from the minority zones to other parts of the country as a product of communist population policy, an important and constant element of which was to pre-empt ethnic sources of political dissent. Greek place-names were changed to Albanian names, while use of the Greek language, prohibited everywhere outside the minority zones, was prohibited for many official purposes within them as well."

[10] Albania: From Anarchy to a Balkan IdentityISBN 1850652791,by Miranda Vickers & James Pettifer, 1999,page 201,"They suffered the same cultural repression as other small minorities, in so far as their language had no official status"

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