This page is preserved as an archive of the associated article page's "votes for deletion" debate (the forerunner of articles for deletion). Please do not modify this page, nor delete it as an orphaned talk page.
Delete the articles titled Red China Magazine, Ronald J. Johnson, Alex Smith, Daryl Clark. They all have no external links, no relevant hits on Google, unknown magazine, and fishy prose, like "Irish Pulitzer prize." These are related to above Ocean City. Seems fictional? Fuzheado 05:53, 5 Feb 2004 (UTC)
Delete all. I can find no record of these people or Red China Magazine on the web. RickK 06:07, 5 Feb 2004 (UTC)
from Daryl Clark "Clark as Johnson always carries a potato and boxes people 1930s style outside of pubs" sounds completely phony. Delete all. (surprised some of these have been around so long) Maximus Rex 06:09, 5 Feb 2004 (UTC)
It seems there is really a "Red China Magazine" see [[1]], but you have to search 紅色中國 in google. But I don't know whether it is famous enough within China. wshun 06:29, 5 Feb 2004 (UTC)
Thanks for finding this link. Note to other readers: the linked-to site has nothing to do with Clark/Johnson/Smith. Wile E. Heresiarch 01:57, 13 Feb 2004 (UTC)
Delete; nonsense/vanity. Psychonaut 10:57, 5 Feb 2004 (UTC)
That these entries do not link to specific sites I take issue with. Although I do not find this site to be a forum for esoterica, I can also state that many things found on wikipedia I cannot find elsewhere using google. As the writer of some of these articles, and the ex-husband of another person interesting in compiling information surrounding this art-group, I must say that most of Smith's/LaBier's/Clark's work, including the magazine, have been published by vanity presses or organizations since folded. The first time I came across Smith's work was in St. Mark's bookstore on the consignment shelf. There was no record of prior printings (copyright expired?), but I know for a fact that The Light Flood (published or possibly reprinted this year), which was given me by an old prof, was printed once before in 1970. Thus I find Smith, LaBier, and, to a lesser extent, their linking partners, to be relevant. Thanks are given to Clark, Johnson in Stockholm Evenings, a work published of Smith that I believe, but have not factually confirmed, was published by Hauser prior to the two's parting ways. For my final argument that these topics are worthwhile, I should direct all concientious voters to both pigironmalt.com and Poetry Motel, magazines where Smith has published once if not several times per. Ocean City: Poems and Artwork is available for sale on amazon.com (and several other sites) as well. However, it is listed as a first printing. All of my letters to the vanity press have yet to be answered, although all I ask for is that I be forwarded to the executors of the work courtesy of the press. If anyone else has info regarding these artists, please come forward. Otherwise, I should go about my cataloguing of their lives elsewhere. I vote that they remain available to the public via this publicly upheld site. Please do not delete. Jon500
Can you point to a single website that mentions these people? RickK 04:29, 8 Feb 2004 (UTC)
"That these entries do not link to specific sites, I take issue with. Although I do not find this site to be a forum for esoterica, I can also state that many things found on wikipedia I cannot find elsewhere using google." This is something that I wrote previously. I would advise you to reread what I wrote previously, as I also listed two websites where Alex Smith appears as a poet or writer. Amazon lists Ocean City for sale. http://www.pigironmalt.com has published Smith's story "We Walked into the Lake." I hope this helps.
Delete all: personal promotion. WP doesn't exist to give unknown artists their 15 minutes of fame. Wile E. Heresiarch 00:13, 11 Feb 2004 (UTC)
Keep. Seems to be verifiable according to wshun. Not sure. No vote. Anthony DiPierro 22:26, 12 Feb 2004 (UTC)
Verifiable? Not at all. If (1) you followed the link given by wshun, and (2) compared it with the description in Red China Magazine, you would see immediately that, in fact, the web site is not the RCM of Clark/Johnson/Smith, which is still unidentified. As Jon500 pointed out so helpfully above, "I must say that most of Smith's/LaBier's/Clark's work, including the magazine, have been published by vanity presses or organizations since folded." Away with this crap. Wile E. Heresiarch 01:57, 13 Feb 2004 (UTC)
On rereading the Red China Magazine article I see that it refers to "Smith, who'd taken to calling himself 'Jon 500' around his friends". I would assume Jon500 is Smith's sock puppet here; naturally he voted against deletion. Referring to oneself in the third person is so charming. Wile E. Heresiarch 02:03, 13 Feb 2004 (UTC)
Delete. I give the link because I think somebody may like to replace this made-up magazine with the real one, but it seems the real one is not famous enough :P wshun 06:58, 14 Feb 2004 (UTC)
Although fame appears to be a prerequisite of having a WP entry, I can confirm that the individuals in question are infact artists. I purchased Smith's book (which includes artwork by LaBier)on amazon myself. Although most of Smith's work exists in the form of rare zines and pamphlets much of it is finding it's way into print. RCM itself was a pamphlet Smith published while at Berkeley in the late fifties. Smith's son Jonathan plans to resurrect the pamphlet in magazine form, reprinting some of the original socialist rhetoric, alongside new material. I can't wait to see RC in April it was always a favorite of mine. chuck_kinbote
I don't wish to be unreasonably arguementative here, but history will show it is often the persecutors doing the fame mongering, not the persecuted. With that being said the above: who doth protest too much, whoms personal bios detail their crusades against "kookery," are merely aspiring toward their Warholian moments by fighting a non-existant argument against a few measly entries. Such finger pointing can only reveal your own personal ambitions for this venue. Let me say, there is also a matter of hegemony here. The web's greatest contribution to our society is that it allows for the movement of ideas among those who are not powerful enough to mold history or even record their own. It seems a technocracy has already seized control of this new frontier or as the Who said, "meet the new boss, same as the old boss." Prof. Emory Bortz
