Talk:Kiwifruit

Evergreen?

Is it evergreen or deciduous? This is a MINIMAL information. Isn't there a template, how to write such articles? Well, there should be one. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 115.70.29.185 (talk) 06:25, 27 April 2020 (UTC)

This is about the fruit and its production, not the plant, for the plant use the pages under there scientific name.192.26.8.4 (talk) 17:42, 13 July 2020 (UTC)

Yes, you can go to the specific page using their scientific name, such as Actinidia deliciosa. Icecreamjuggler06 (talk) 21:57, 25 December 2020 (UTC)

Etymology

" is the study of the origin of words and the way in which their meanings have changed throughout history."
What is under this section is nothing to do with etymology. It should be about the WORD not about the fruit.
Would be good if the author of the article could get some education.
It also would be good if the author had enough self-criticism to understand that s/he has no idea what s/he is doing and thus would do a search for 'kiwi etymology'. Then s/he would have discovered what the word's etymology is. Wikipedia is suffering of such characters. There is a reason it is not accepted as a source by universities. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 115.70.29.185 (talk) 06:10, 27 April 2020 (UTC)

Etymology is the origin of a word and the historical development of its meaning

looks like you are the one who does not understand, maybe?192.26.8.4 (talk) 17:38, 13 July 2020 (UTC)

Chinese Gooseberries

"To avoid associating the fruit with China after WWII, it was internationaly marketed under the name "Melonette" first, and finally under the name "kiwifruit".[10]"

I followed the citation link and it made no mention of disassociation with China. Rather, it implied that American importers wanted to avoid using the word "berry" which might result in higher tariffs. Does anyone have another citation for that claim? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.38.10.70 (talk) 05:34, 9 June 2013 (UTC)

Here is a first-hand account from the person who originally named the fruit: https://www.epictepuke.co.nz/explore/posts/1313194-the-history-of-the-naming-of-kiwifruit-by-jac?page=posts&tc=795618

"At that time (probably in the late 1940's or early 1950's) Turners & Growers was in close contact with a Mr Norman Sondag of California, who became a major importer. He wrote to my father, Sir Harvey Turner, suggesting that the name "Chinese Gooseberry" should be changed because gooseberries grow on a bush close to the ground and any fruit of that name would be viewed with suspicion by the American quarantine officials, who might be afraid that gooseberry bushes could harbour anthrax. My father then called a meeting in his office, at which he was the chairman, and which included the following: Mr Gordon Bairstow who, at that time, was the import/export manager of Turners & Growers Ltd, my brother, Mr Grahame Turner, and myself. My father asked for suggestions as to what could be a suitable name for this fruit. He himself had in mind to call the fruit "melonettes". However, it so happened that I myself made a suggestion of Kiwifruit. Having been overseas for six years during the Second World War, I was well aware of the fact that New Zealanders had become known as "Kiwis". My father made the decision that we would start using the name "Kiwifruit" in our export trade and it was not long before this name was adopted by the industry." Newzild (talk) 22:17, 4 September 2024 (UTC)

WP:ENGVAR should be New Zealand English

This page is in the WikiProject of New Zealand but no other country. There is no specific WP:ENGVAR defined for this page. Recent edits have replaced "flavour" with "flavor", "colour" with "color" and "centre" with "center". However, in its early years (2002 until about 2010, based on browsing the edit history) this article appears to have used NZ English such as "flavour". Somewhere along the line, US spellings have crept in and not been reverted properly.

Can I propose formally adopting New Zealand English for this page? Tayste (edits) 22:42, 9 March 2018 (UTC)

I totally agree.

Morgan Leigh | Talk 08:54, 14 March 2018 (UTC)

Disagree. Currently this article uses British English (if you want to tag it, tag it thusly), I would not be opposed to switching it to American English, but would be strongly opposed to switching it to New Zealand English.

• RANT AGAINST WikiProject of New Zealand
  • Maybe we should use Chinese English as more is grown in China. In all seriousness this is a waste of time. I requested a re-review of this page over 4 years ago on the WikiProject of New Zealand page, and no one responded yet. This is the first thing anyone from the project wants to do? It seems kind of like a man getting a wife and not seeing her after. What’s the point of claiming something as yours if you don’t maintain it. Hell, maintance is most of the fun.

Morgan Leigh's changes illustrate why it must not be CHANGED to New Zealand English. Leigh twice tried to modify the heading section to indicate that Kiwis don't call kiwis kiwis (at least I crack myself up because I know no one else is laughing). This info is already found in the article why keep adding it to the heading (as if this is the most important thing about kiwis). Besides the vast majority of the English speaking world calls them kiwis.

• MAIN POINT
  • Kiwi is a valid name, it is in the dictionary as the preferred usage. New Zealand is a small nation its usage of this word is at best trivia. What am I to do, find new common names for all the varieties of small kiwi berries because they are called kiwis not kiwifruit, names that are less common less recognizable and may or not come up in a google search? Zefr, Moriori, Plantdrew, and I (all the major editors for this page) have been fighting the zeal of these New Zealanders (look at that another pun) for years in their attempt to convert this article to New Zealand English by removing the usage of the most common name for the fruit. 2600:1000:B116:E43D:F40D:1703:4A7E:8AC1 (talk) 18:53, 20 March 2018 (UTC)

"The vast majority" doing / not doing something is hardly a persuasive reason against using NZEnglish -- we well know that the majority has been wrong more than a few times. Whether or not the article uses NZEnglish, the article and we need to adopt Kiwifruit and Kiwiberry as preferred terms and reduce the use of Kiwi for Actinidia fruits and vines. KIWI is the Maori name for a unique flightless bird native only to New Zealand, the name long predating European colonization. Yes, adopting distinct terms for kiwi, kiwifruit, and kiwiberry is a bit awkward at first, but all but the most intractable will accept these changes without much difficulty or hesitancy. Obviously the grocer is not going to be confused and check the stockroom for a squat long-billed bird when someone asks for kiwis. But conversely, the public will be minimally confused by labels that include "fruit" or "berry" in the signage. BTW, I have never been to NZ, am born and based in NW USA.GeeBee60 (talk) 06:27, 12 April 2018 (UTC)

Except in languages, common usage is exactly what makes things correct or incorrect. As a second note before the poster of this comment changed the article they were only three or four usages of the British spellings. The article was converted from something that was essentially an American English for over 7 years. That being said please point out any inconsistencies in the article or change them yourself.2600:1008:B005:4C51:8944:7174:26CF:6085 (talk) 17:55, 17 April 2018 (UTC)

@Tayste:@GeeBee60: (I would notify User 2600:1008:B005:4C51:8944:7174:26CF:6085 but they have been banned and left wikipedia). We seem to have a consensus as three users agree it should be NZ English and one doesn't so I suggest we change it. I'm not sure what exactly is involved in making the change. Can you two advise please? Morgan Leigh | Talk 01:02, 26 October 2018 (UTC)

Thanks, I've added explicit New Zealand English flags to the page and talk page. And corrected a few incorrect spellings as a result. Tayste (edits) 03:00, 26 October 2018 (UTC)

There is more than one against it there is no consensus. New Zealand isn't even the main producer anymore. It really doesn't seem relevant. I am done arguing people over things that don't matter. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Bobshmit (talk • contribs) 19:01, 12 November 2018 (UTC)

But they’re the main English speaking producer. Also calling it kiwifruit distinguishes it from kiwis(bird) and kiwis(people). Anonymoususer60 (talk) 07:38, 25 April 2023 (UTC)

Greek version?

I hope someone whose Modern Greek is better than mine can create a Greek version of this article, as Greek is one of the few European languages that doesn't call the fruit by some name with 'kiwi' (or 'kivi') in it - instead, the word is ακτινίδιο ('aktinídhio'), which is surely derived from the Latin genus name 'Actinidia', but that in turn must be related to the Greek ακτίνα ('aktína'), 'ray' (as in a ray of the sun, or X-rays - evidently a reference to the ray-like pattern in the flesh). Greece now also exports the fruit. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 213.127.210.95 (talk) 14:49, 6 August 2018 (UTC)

Zespri

"Zespri", referred to the gold kiwifruit cultivated in New Zealand. This is not true. Zespri is a brand name for all new Zealand kiwifruit as exporting through them it is the only legally way for a kiwi to sell kiwifruit. Bobshmit (talk) 17:19, 11 September 2018 (UTC)

It can be edited rather than reverting all the changes made. If there are reliable WP:RS sources for golden kiwifruit cultivars available on the market other than Zespri Gold, then please add them rather than deleting the work of other editors. --Zefr (talk) 17:25, 11 September 2018 (UTC)

look I like you I worked with you for a long time on this page. but sadly there is no additional content that you've added that is worthy of being on the page specially in the history sections, Zespri is a brand not a cultivar. if you want to add some of this information into the golden kiwi fruit section it might fit but you would have to be careful not to make it too promotional in nature. I sincerely hope that we can come up with a plan. but for right now there is adequate reason to revert and insufficient reason to maintain any of the changes. I am sure that you can look at the UN statistics on kiwi fruit to show the growth of that market over time if that is what you desire.2600:1000:B116:EC28:13A9:C1:6A2D:FF0F (talk) 17:38, 11 September 2018 (UTC)

Zespri is a cultivar (by HortResearch) that became a brand and system of orchard management, explained here and here. I agree we should not be promoting Zespri, but it's the largest kiwifruit brand and is not overtly promoted in the article, enabling education for the encyclopedia user. --Zefr (talk) 23:28, 11 September 2018 (UTC)

Zespri is not a cultivar. It is the only company that new zealanders can legally use to sell their product overseas. As such they do research and development, and impose standards (including what cultivars are allowed to be sold). The fruits where created long before Zespri existed. It is strongly reffrenced in the "kiwifruit industry in New Zealand" article that is reffrenced in the further reading section. As they came to Prominence after New Zealand lost its Edge competitively and New Zealand is now the 4th highest producer (or lower) instead of the first, is not highly important for this article. The names of the cultivars hort 12 for example, should be sufficient.Bobshmit (talk) 18:22, 12 November 2018 (UTC)

This. page says "Zespri Gold kiwifruit makes it export debut. Developed by HortResearch – now Plant & Food Research, yellow-fleshed Hort16A variety offers a sweet, tropical taste". If this is correct then it means that there is a cultivar marketed as Zespri Gold, and another called Zespri SunGold see here. This is fairly well covered in the article already but I have added a reference to its name in one place where it was mentioned only by the cultivar name. Morgan Leigh | Talk 21:13, 12 November 2018 (UTC)

Those are brand names, not varieties. They are trademarked terms varieties are not trademarked. Please look things up before you comment. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Bobshmit (talk • contribs) 23:18, 12 November 2018 (UTC)

Which is exactly why I said I said "a cultivar marketed as Zespri Gold" after pointing out it is the Hort16A variety. Morgan Leigh | Talk 00:06, 13 November 2018 (UTC)

Sorry misunderstood. Then obviously you must agree with what I said previously. Thank you I apologize. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Bobshmit (talk • contribs) 12:34, 13 November 2018 (UTC) There are now over 19 references to Zespri in this article. This company only the 3rd largest producer. Not that big of a deal The History Section is just advertisement, and is not even true anymore. I need you all to agree to let me revert this section at least back to how it was before Sept 9 at 8:11. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Bobshmit (talk • contribs) 21:27, 15 November 2018 (UTC)

Rather than reverting the article update the info with more current cited info if you think it is out of date. Morgan Leigh | Talk 06:24, 18 November 2018 (UTC).

After 2 months I finally found some references that may expand the page the way that was wanted. I am frustrated that misinformation is permitted as long as it expands the page. clearly Gold kiwis where not invented by zesperi, and HortResearch, is not the only relvent research company. Removal it is.67.252.6.84 (talk) 12:23, 22 November 2018 (UTC)

https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/pdf/10.1080/01140671.2001.9514154
http://biopublisher.ca/index.php/ijh/article/html/3002/

Poorly written article

Parts of the article seem to me poorly written. There was confusion between species and cultivars, "varieties" used where it should be "cultivars", cultivar names confused with trade descriptions, and so on. The Pollination section contains statements not consistent with basic botany, such as "the females receive the pollen to fertilise their ovaries" – ovaries can't be fertilized, although the eggs they produce can be. I've done some copy-editing, but I don't have time now for more. I hope others do! Peter coxhead (talk) 00:11, 23 November 2018 (UTC)

Image with cross-section of kiwifruit is missing something

According to the key/legend, fruit of the species Actinidia indochinensis is supposed to be depicted by the letter "I" in the photograph. I see no letter "I" in the image. — Preceding unsigned comment added by PametUGlavu (talk • contribs) 18:44, 9 March 2019 (UTC)

New Zealand English?

Is there a reason this article is written in New Zealand English? I get that the fruit is from there, but we get fruit imported from all parts of the world and don't necessarily write articles about that fruit referring to them by their name in their native country.

It's strange to see references to "kiwifruit" when the fruit is only known as "kiwi" here in America (and most other countries, I think the UK too, and France, Spain, Germany, Sweden, Poland...). — Preceding unsigned comment added by Bartszyszka (talk • contribs) 19:14, 7 February 2020 (UTC) Because 2 Kiwis changed it by finding consensus with each other after I corrected the spellings of someone who was changing the spellings to British spellings (the page had been previously american spellings).198.151.8.4 (talk) 15:49, 15 March 2020 (UTC)

This author doesn't know what s/he is doing. Not familiar with the subject neither with writing.

In case you want to know this, search for 'kiwi etymology'. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 115.70.29.185 (talk) 06:17, 27 April 2020 (UTC)

Because 2 Kiwis changed it by finding consensus with each other after I reverted the spellings of someone who was changing the spellings to British spellings (the page had been previously american spellings).198.151.8.4 (talk) 15:49, 15 March 2020 (UTC) EDIT: Still, more formally the fruit is called kiwifruit and although it may be jarring, it is perfectly comprehensible by all parties. It is the perfect compromise.192.26.8.4 (talk) 19:41, 28 April 2020 (UTC)

Requested move 4 August 2020

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: not moved, with no prejudice against a new proposal for just 2 and 3 (but noting that if it is successful, there are hundreds of incoming wikilinks to clean up). -- JHunterJ (talk) 11:23, 11 August 2020 (UTC)

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• Kiwifruit → Kiwi (fruit)
• Kiwi → Kiwi (bird)
• Kiwi (disambiguation) → Kiwi

– I think that when most people search for "kiwi", they are usually searching for the fruit, not the bird. The first sentence of this article says that the fruit is "often shortened to kiwi outside Australia and New Zealand." The vast majority of readers are outside Australia and New Zealand, so I think there should be some adjustments to the titles of these articles. Momo824 (talk) 02:29, 4 August 2020 (UTC)

Do you have evidence supporting the claim in your first sentence? Like, figures drawn from access logs including the referer? The Crab Who Played With The Sea (talk) 02:50, 4 August 2020 (UTC)

To elaborate on my previous comment, I think what is needed to answer this conclusively is the following 3 set of figures:

• When viewers land on Kiwi (disambiguation), how often do they come from Kiwifruit, Kiwi, or somewhere else?
• When viewers click on a topic in Kiwi (disambiguation), how often is that topic Kiwifruit, Kiwi, or something else?
• When viewers land on the Kiwi article (maybe having been sent there by a search for "kiwi" as this is what Wikipedia currently does), how often do they then go to Kiwifruit?

It seems to me that those figures may be obtained from logs with referer included, but I'm not sure Wikipedia keeps that information or makes it available to editors. Does anyone know? The Crab Who Played With The Sea (talk) 10:36, 4 August 2020 (UTC)

@Momo824: You quoted the first sentence correctly, but perhaps without noting it says "often", not "always" or "usually". Moriori (talk) 03:18, 4 August 2020 (UTC)

I note that pageviews are rather similar for the two topics. So I'm not convinced by your rationale. Schwede66 09:10, 4 August 2020 (UTC)

That doesn't necessarily prove anything. For example, if someone wants to go to the Kiwifruit article and they search for "Kiwi", they will be directed to the Kiwi article about the bird, registering a page view for that article. If anything, it backs up my point that both articles are significant enough that there is no primary topic. Momo824 (talk) 03:20, 5 August 2020 (UTC)

• Support per nom, no WP:PRIMARYTOPIC.--Ortizesp (talk) 20:23, 4 August 2020 (UTC)
• Oppose for now, as there is no clear evidence yet whether this is the case. Instead, revisit this when evidence either way becomes available. The Crab Who Played With The Sea (talk) 20:37, 4 August 2020 (UTC)
• Oppose per above comment. No clear evidence to support this move. Rreagan007 (talk) 02:04, 5 August 2020 (UTC)
• Oppose There is no evidence that the colloquial usage of the fruit as "Kiwi" is the primary topic here. I note that many US (for example) publications - here are three -[1], [2], [3] use "kiwifuit" as the name of the fruit in publications. Andrewgprout (talk) 04:07, 5 August 2020 (UTC)

I'm not claiming that that the fruit is the primary topic. I'm claiming that there is no primary topic because the term "kiwi" is very commonly used to refer to both the bird and the fruit. I fully acknowledge the fact that "kiwifruit" is also used outside of Australia and New Zealand, so the term being used in US publications doesn't really prove anything. Momo824 (talk) 10:36, 5 August 2020 (UTC)

• Oppose, "kiwifruit" is clear and doesn't need disambiguation. All uses of the name "kiwi" derive from the bird, so the bird has the primary long-term significance. The fruit was only given the name kiwifruit in 1959, according to Kiwifruit industry in New Zealand, and the shortened form is presumably even more recent..-gadfium 05:42, 5 August 2020 (UTC)

According to WP:DPT, "being the original source of the name is not determinative." Momo824 (talk) 10:36, 5 August 2020 (UTC)

• @Moriori, PauAmma, Rreagan007, Andrewgprout, and Gadfium: If the guidelines at WP:DPT are followed, it is clear that there is no primary topic here. This is proven by the hundreds of thousands of instances in which "kiwi" is used to refer to the fruit on Google Books, Scholar, and News (note that due to my search query, there are likely numerous other instances that were omitted). If you search Google (non-personalized to remove any bias) for "kiwi", the majority of top results will be related to the fruit, not the bird. Also, I don't know if this relevant because it isn't mentioned as a method at WP:DPT, but the Encyclopædia Britannica articles for the bird and the fruit are both titled "Kiwi", and the Cambridge Dictionary and Dictionary.com both include the fruit as a definition for the word "kiwi". Momo824 (talk) 10:36, 5 August 2020 (UTC)
• Oppose. The bird is the clear primary topic. The fruit is most commonly known as kiwifruit (or kiwi fruit). -- Necrothesp (talk) 11:01, 5 August 2020 (UTC)
• Support 2 and 3, oppose 1. I came here thinking I'd oppose, but a look at the pageviews for things called "kiwi" shows that the bird article gets barely a third of pageviews. Even allowing that the fruit and dollar are only sometimes called "kiwi", that is still not a strong enough mandate for the bird article as primarytopic. That said, there's no reason to change the title of the fruit article - "kiwifruit" is a common name, and is natural disambiguation. Dohn joe (talk) 14:52, 5 August 2020 (UTC)
• Strong oppose. The bird is called the kiwi and that is the primary topic; the correct name for the fruit is "kiwifruit". I note there has been little mention of Kiwi (people). That would seem more likely to cause confusion. --Hazhk (talk) 17:47, 5 August 2020 (UTC)
• Oppose for the reasons already mentioned, kiwifruit is clear enough and the bird is clearly the primary topic for 'kiwi' given the other uses all derive from it. Turnagra (talk) 18:58, 5 August 2020 (UTC)
• Oppose. It's all been said really. The fruit is called kiwifruit, the bird is kiwi. And if anyone looking for the fruit were mistakenly to end up at the bird's page, there's a perfectly clear hatnote to help them out. If it ain't broke, don't fix it ... and it ain't broke. Paora (talk) 10:34, 7 August 2020 (UTC)
• Oppose. The bird topic has substantially greater enduring notability and educational value than any other topic and is therefore primary topic for "Kiwi" with respect to long-term significance, IMO. Nurg (talk) 11:24, 7 August 2020 (UTC)
• Support 2 and 3, oppose 1 To make a disambiguation page all we need to show is that a significant percentage of people who search require a redirect. Over 2/3 of all page views and 80% of the English speaking world calls them Kiwis (right or wrong, it does not matter). All the other arguments don't matter. Most of these arguments here are not even real arguments and most are dead wrong. Kiwi (fruit) has more notability then all of them and more people search for it. The bird has less notability, and a less enduring one and is only a side note due to the size of the egg and a lick of a major impact to the environment, it is not even endangered anymore. Kiwi people, come on who thinks about New Zealand but once every four years at the Olympics or during rugby season for those few that watch, kiwi shoe polish is more notable. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 192.26.8.4 (talk) 12:11, 10 August 2020 (UTC)

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The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Kiwi shortened name in other countries

The kiwifruit is commonly shortened to kiwi in the UK. Should it be mentioned? Some Sources:

• https://www.chrisbowers.co.uk/article/ultimate-guide-kiw-fruit/
• https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/kiwi

Sahaib3005 (talk) 18:17, 12 April 2021 (UTC)

Unsuitable for desserts containing milk or other dairy products?

Yes, actinidain will break down the proteins in milk, but does this really make it "unsuitable" for desserts containing milk or other dairy products? There is literally a photo right there of a pavlova with cream on it and kiwifruit slices placed on top. Kiwifruit are often served in this manner, raw slices on top of cream-topped pavlovas. There is no citation for these two sentences either. Scotty1141 (talk) 10:08, 26 December 2021 (UTC)

Chinese gooseberry name

The article failed to give full contextual explanation for the name "Chinese gooseberry". If you read the historic sources, it's because European settlers noticed how similar it looks to gooseberries (which are native in Europe) but they added "Chinese" to it because the first discovery and cultivation of this fruit was geolocated to China. But article failed to provide that explanation so I added in a few words to show that Chinese gooseberry was originally named after the place where it came from. 49.180.161.64 (talk) 16:05, 3 April 2024 (UTC)