Talk:Mario/Archive 2

This is an archive of past discussions about Mario. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page.

Archive 1

Archive 2

Archive 3

Archive 4

Archive 5

Intro

To meet wikistandards, I have shortened the introduction to this article by relocating the information. I reworded some of the remaining info in the intro, but if anyone feels it doesn't read well, please say so or change it. Satchfan 11:50, 4 April 2006 (UTC)

This page seems to be a bit fragmeneted and hard to read, would someone please create more sections to make it legible? Thizz 19:53, 11 April 2006 (UTC)

Mario Game Sales

I'm wondering about the effect of printing these two lines:

"To date, nearly 200 million games featuring Mario have been sold" and "overall, Mario games have sold over approximately 152 million copies worldwide,"

To the average reader, there is a rather considerable difference between 200 and 152. Not knowing about the stats myself, I can't provide much help, but can this be reworded in some way or revised to make it seem not quite so contradicting?

Also, isn't "over approximately" redundant? I think only one word should be used. 203.45.15.218 06:40, 24 April 2006 (UTC)

Indeed. The number was at around 183m if I recall correctly. -- ReyBrujo 11:44, 24 April 2006 (UTC)

I think what it means is 200 million are games with him in it(including cameos like NBA Street V3), while 152 million are games that are considered Mario games(like Super Mario World and Mario Party). TJ Spyke

Mario as first name

Has it been stated anywhere in-canon that Mario is his first name? If not, I suggest someone adjust the article to say that it is not known that it is his first or surname, and could be his surname, thereby not making his full name Mario Mario (and also making a little more sense). --SheeEttin 00:00, 25 April 2006 (UTC)

Mario is his first name, as he and his brother are referred to as Mario and Luigi, and if they're brothers, and thus have the same last name, they would be referred to by their first names, Mario and Luigi. The last name is unconfirmed, but Nintendo of America supports the idea. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by RememberMe? (talk • contribs) .

Source? --SheeEttin 15:06, 29 April 2006 (UTC)

SheeEttin, I think you may be onto something: unless there's a source that specifically says otherwise, there's no reason to assume Mario has to be Mario's first name. Regardless of how it sounds in English, they're called "the Mario brothers", which is a big hint, and in Japan, referring to someone by their family name is quite common. Luigi would still go by "Luigi" is this case because he's the younger brother. Come to think of it, this may even be the reason Luigi is officially considered younger, height difference notwithstanding. --Lee Bailey 14:24, 7 May 2006 (UTC)

Their names are, respectively, Mario Mario and Luigi Mario, hence the "Mario Bros." Mario is their last name. --LoZmaster 16:46, 27 May 2006

Except that the only source for that information is the Super Mario Brothers Super Show, if I'm not mistaken, which isn't considered cannon. Officially, the last name/ first name thing hasn't be clarified, to the best of my knowledge. -- Lee Bailey^(talk) 03:42, 30 May 2006 (UTC)

I was able to sit through the Super Mario Brothers movie last year, and that was the first time I ever heard the "Mario Mario" explanation. Not sure on the timing of the movie and TV show or if they shared production / writing or such. -- Xinit 14:58, 16 June 2006 (UTC)

Has it been stated that "Mario" isn't his first name? Is it common in Japan for brothers to refer to one another by their surname? Luigi (specifically, in Mario & Luigi: Superstar Saga ) calls out his brother's name. Also, Peach, a close friend, has called him "Mario" out loud (Super Mario 64). Do close friends call each other by their surnames in Japan? It may have never been stated that "Mario" is his first name, but I think we can all conclude that "Mario" is intended to be his first name. I mean, is Shigeru Miaymoto going to suddenly start calling him "William Mario" in the next Mario game? I think not. Common sense. Crockalley 15:12, 1 June 2006 (UTC)

I'm not saying Mario isn't Mario's first name, just that we can't claim that it is with 100% certainty, since he's never been called anything else. With regard to forms of address, what is common sense to an english-speaking fan would not necessarilly be so to a native Japanese speaker. As a matter of fact, Peach probably would call Mario by his surname name with some sort of honorific attatched unless they had actually been romantically involved for a significant amount of time -- calling him by his first name would excessively intimate, like adressing your good friend as "darling" or "beloved". Luigi, meanwhile, would probably call his brother "older brother", or some variant, rather than by a name at all. Of course I don't think Mario is going to suddenly become "William Mario" someday -- I just don't think it's any more likely we'll find out his name is "Mario Williams". Mario has always been just "Mario". As it stands, he doesn't have another name, and probably never will. All this speculation that he might be "Mario Mario" is silly. Mario isn't a real person, and he doesn't belong to any one real-world culture. It's perfectly fine to presume he just has one name, which is neither "first" nor "last". -- Lee Bailey^(talk) 16:56, 1 June 2006 (UTC)

I see your point now. Thinking on the subject after I responded, I came to the same conclusion: one name, just "Mario". Close friends, his brother, as well as complete strangers all call him just "Mario". As far as I know, that's all that has been presented in the games. In short, I agree with you. Crockalley 16:12, 2 June 2006 (UTC)

Maybe Mario's first name is 'Super'. Just a thought.

      has Luigi ever been called Super Luigi? (in canon of course. =P)
       Wesz 09:25, 16 June 2006 (UTC)

Dr. Mario

I notice a distinct lack of...well, any mention at all of Dr. Mario. As it's spanned several systems, I think it's worth a note. 00:04, 6 May 2006 (UTC)

Yea a mention that Mario was at least a doctor and that he was in other games would be welcomed

That's a very good idea. RememberMe? 21:22, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

With Dr.Mario being a small franchise and his appearences in Super Smash Bros. Melee and all, it should be mentioned.--Trowa440

Yoshi Island 2

Someone forgot Yoshi's Island 2. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 213.10.156.209 (talk • contribs) .

Template

I think we need to redo the template. Here's What I think it should look like:

Mario Land Series: Super Mario Land | Super Mario Land 2 | Wario Land: Super Mario Land 3

Paper Mario Series: Paper Mario | Paper Mario: The Thousand-Year Door | Super Paper Mario

Mario RPG Series: Super Mario RPG | Mario & Luigi: Superstar Saga | Mario & Luigi: Partners in Time

Spinoff Series: Wario Series | Yoshi Series | Donkey Kong Series| Dr. Mario series | Mario Party Series

Other Notable Games: (Things Like Super Smash Bros. And Such Here)

Well, it may be a longer list, but it’s certainly more organized. I mean, a series this big deserves more.

The Mario character template

Hey. I'm curious who designed the Mario character template, which is at the bottom of Mario's profile. It seems to me a bit jumbled and could use some reorganization. I'd be happy to do it. I'm just not sure how. Anyone? Kidicarus222 21:26, 17 May 2006 (UTC)

It's actually two templates: {{mario series}} and {{Mario characters}}. --Golbez 22:43, 17 May 2006 (UTC)

So does that mean I can change the series template to the one I suggested above? Please? 66.215.100.66 00:12, 18 May 2006 (UTC)

Edits can be made; whether or not they will take is not my clal. --Golbez 01:49, 18 May 2006 (UTC)

I personally liked it the way it was yesterday. Put the Paper Mario games and the Mario RPGs together under a Mario RPG/Paper Mario subseries. The Mario Land games should be back in the Main Series category, and SMW2 should be moved out. I do think that we need to add a Yoshi games section and a Wario games section (I realize that these are counted as different series, but they're Mario games), and put Luigi's Mansion and Super Princess Peach under Other Games. --Nitman99

Hundreds?

Mario has not appeared in hundreds of games. He hasn't even hit 200 yet. So, I changed the intro bit to "over a hundred games" rather than "hundreds of games".

Merger from Baby Mario

It is fairly obvious for a merger to eliminate the need for the Baby Mario, especially since someone already copied the article over to Mario. In the grand scheme of things, baby mario can just be part of this article rather than a stub off to the side. Some anon user already went and put back the content from an redirect put in place by someone else, so this is just to make it nice and formal. --Kevin Breitenstein 07:17, 27 May 2006 (UTC)

I agree Baby Mario is Mario and needs to be in this artical, if not all the differnt incarnations of mario need their own pages which would serverly affect the depth of this page. --Hagamaba 19:59, 27 May 2006 (UTC)

Merge it. Baby Mario is Mario, so why have them as two different articles? --LoZmaster 16:50, 27 May 2006 (EST)

Without Baby Mario we would not have Mario...Merge it-- Trowa440

Comic book appearances in the 70s?

I'm curious about this remark, which appears in the development section:

Mario first appeared in the video game Donkey Kong, despite being developed as a concept character before-hand in the mid-1970s. During this time, Mario was thrown about from comic book to comic book, while his debut was pending.

Where does this information come from? It seems like this is interesting enough to warrant more of an explanation if Mario's first appearance was in comic books, even before Donkey Kong came about. -- Lee Bailey^(talk) 04:31, 30 May 2006 (UTC)

Didn't Mario get his name after Donkey Kong came out? He was just Jumpman right? So how'd he get his name before the game?-Trowa440

I did some digging, and the info appears to have been added by an anonymus IP at 16:37, on December 30, 2005. I dropped the user a note, but it looks likely this is a shared ip. I'm going to tag it citation needed for now, but it should be nixed if it can't be verified soon. -- Lee Bailey^(talk) 17:39, 30 May 2006 (UTC)

It's been a week and I'm still not seeing a citation. I'm removing it since no source has been provided for this information, and it contradicts what I've read elsewhere. If Mario made appearances in comics in the 70s, it should be easy enough to prove these comics exist before re-adding the information. -- Lee Bailey^(talk) 14:45, 6 June 2006 (UTC)

Mario Mario Revisted

I know the name issue has arleady been discussed, but it's been suggested that "Mario Mario" should be considered Mario's real name because his parents' last name is given as Mario in Yoshi's Island. Is this statement correct? I've never played Yoshi's Island -- I was just too busy at the time it came out. But I can't find mention of this anywhere else. For anyone who has played it, where in the game is this mentioned, if it is? In the ending, maybe? Also, do his parents have first names, or are they just Mr. and Mrs. Mario? This seems relevant to the whole name debate, but I'd like to be sure of what was said. -- Lee Bailey^(talk) 15:31, 6 June 2006 (UTC)

The parents' names aren't given, first or last. It just calls them "mom and dad". Agent CH 02:11, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

Thank you. I was skeptical about this, especially considering that's it isn't mentioned anywhere online that I can find. You would think if it was in the game fans would be jumping to prove the theory of Mario's last name once and for all. Unless anyone else has a source, I'm going to continue operating under the assumption that the name is unknown. -- Lee Bailey^(talk) 16:40, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

Jump man

Jump man redirects here but the words don't appear in the article at all. savidan^{(talk) (e@)} 02:19, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

Not as two words. It's one word, "Jumpman", his name in Donkey Kong. Agent CH 02:25, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

Collaboration

Ok, my first thought at looking at this is the references are very few and far between, but really, this is Mario we're talking about. Im thinking alot of this stuff should be easy to cite in large chunks at a time by citing just general stuff about the various games and large things from nintendo, anyone else have ideas? Homestarmy 02:37, 8 June 2006 (UTC)

Mario image

you know i think that image SHOULD be removed! the one that says marios appearance in the donkey kong arcade game. i think its stupid and ugly. what do you think? Touth 04:05, 8 June 2006 (UTC)

It's not obvious to you that we disagree? You don't own the article. Neither do we for that matter. You have been reported for a [[WP:3RR}Three Revert Rule]] violation. --Golbez 05:09, 8 June 2006 (UTC)

I was going to re-add this, but someone beat me to it. Aesthetically speaking, it wouldn't kill me if the image was a touch smaller, but the image itself is quite interesting and says a lot about how much Mario has evolved. That said, do you know is this image was from the actual side of the arcade cabinet, or some sort if it's from some kind of ad, or somewhere else? Right now the caption just says it's from Donkey Kong, and although it's sort of obvious, it should probably be phrased in such a way so no one can mistake it for in-game art. -- Lee Bailey^(talk) 05:42, 8 June 2006 (UTC)

I actually have no opinion on the image itself - merely the methods taken to remove it. --Golbez 05:54, 8 June 2006 (UTC)

Well, yeah. That too. -- Lee Bailey^(talk) 07:06, 8 June 2006 (UTC)

Old lead

I'm rewriting the lead tonight because this article is The Good Article Collaboration of the Week, and because the Lead doesn't cover the scope of the article as recommended in WP:LEAD.

I imagine some of the things I remove may not be mentioned elsewhere in the article, so I am leaving the old lead here.Bugmuncher 04:18, 8 June 2006 (UTC)

Mario (マリオ), star of the Super Mario games, is a world renowned video game character created by Shigeru Miyamoto for Nintendo. As well as being Nintendo's mascot, he is possibly the most recognizable character in video game history, appearing in over a hundred games, many of them best-sellers. Mario first appeared in Donkey Kong, and appeared alongside his brother Luigi for the first time in Mario Bros., but achieved his greatest stardom in the Super Mario Bros. series.

Mario has appeared in video games in many different genres and has served in many different roles. Outside of the platformers with which he is traditionally associated, he has appeared in many different Mario-themed Nintendo games, including the Mario Kart series, many of Nintendo's non-realistic sports games (such as the Mario Tennis and Mario Golf series), and Nintendo's series of Mario RPGs (including Super Mario RPG, Paper Mario, Mario & Luigi, and sequels to come).

To date, nearly 200 million copies of games featuring Mario have been sold,^[1] making it by far the best-selling video game franchise of all time.

Looks fine to me, but I just got here heh. Homestarmy 04:21, 8 June 2006 (UTC)

Yoshi

I think there is far too much detail on Yoshi for an article about Mario and it dilutes an otherwise reasonable article. I'd jump in and start ripping stuff out like all but the briefest mention in SMS for example, but I thought I'd garner some feedback first. Garglebutt / (talk) 07:44, 8 June 2006 (UTC)

I think you're right; the "powers and abilities" section in general strikes me as much too long. For a character that's been in 100+ games, I'm not sure it's productive to try and list every major move he's had in every major game -- especially when you're counting the use of power-ups which presumably anyone could use. Same goes for Yoshi, who is somewhere between being an item and a distinct, semi-playable character in SMW. I don't think he needs much more than a mention. -- Lee Bailey^(talk) 13:32, 8 June 2006 (UTC)

I echo the length problem with powers and abilities - also how it goes by paragraph per game is painful as well. Also, IIRC things wikilinked in the article shouldn't be in see also... RN 05:05, 9 June 2006 (UTC)

Mario can't be 75 pounds.

We all know Mario is tubby. If he's 4 feet tall, and weighs 75 pounds, then his BMI is 22.9. That's well in the "normal" range. I would believe his BMI would be higher. . . he should weigh much more than 75 pounds.

-LuigiMario

There are people who look tubby, but weigh less due to other factors. AllStarZ 03:17, 17 June 2006 (UTC)

Category Silent protagonists

Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't Mario talk in both Paper Mario and Mario 64 ("thank you for playing this game-a")? Eikern 21:09, 9 June 2006 (UTC)

Maybe, but he doesn't really talk in the main game. He does make some "ah-hah", "woo", etc. noises, which aren't really considered talking. (If I remember correctly, he also says "It's-a me, Mario!" somewhere.) But still, no real mono/dialogue. — SheeEttin {T/C} 21:31, 9 June 2006 (UTC)

He may not have any real dialogue, but he still has a very recognizable voice, don't you think? Millions of gamers would be able to recognize him saying 'It's-a me, Mario!' So wouldn't that preclude him really being a silent protagonist? 172.191.72.191 04:31, 11 June 2006 (UTC)?!

Not really. In-game, he doesn't really speak or have any dialogue, which would make him a speaking character. Since he doesn't, he isn't considered speaking. Oh, and please indent replies with a ":". — SheeEttin {T/C} 20:34, 11 June 2006 (UTC)

This article should mention how Mario got his name in the first place

From Nintendo land:

http://www.nintendoland.com/home2.htm?mario/birth/index.htm [

How did Mario get his name then? When Minoru Arakawa, the president of Nintendo of America in New York, first saw "Jumpman" he thought: "Hey! He looks just like the landlord of our office!"; and the landlord´s name was Mario Segali and he came from Italy so that's how it is!

Duhman0008 20:58, 11 June 2006 (UTC)

I'd add it, but one, that doesn't look like a very reputable source (and the numerous grammatical errors don't help), and two: "NintendoLand is not in any way connected to or sponsored by Nintendo Inc."

So, in other words, I don't think you can cite that as fact until you can find a better source, like Nintendo themselves. (Always a good source.) — SheeEttin {T/C} 20:34, 11 June 2006 (UTC)

It's also been mentioned in the books "The Ultimate History of Video Games" and "Game Over: Press Start to Continue", both of which are considered highly respectable sources. Although the story is a little different, with Nintendo being late on their rent payments since this was during a time when their arcade games were doing pretty bad in America(like Radarscope). TJ Spyke 20:55, 11 June 2006 (UTC)

]Google the phrase How did Mario get his name and you should find countless links. I learned that storie about a decade ago on a TV show, I didn't have Internet back then, it has to be true. Duhman0008 21:00, 11 June 2006 (UTC)

Mark it "citation needed" and I'll have the citation sometime before the end of the week, if no one beats me to it. The guy was actually the lardlord for the NYC warehouse nintendo of america used to house their arcade machines until they were sold. It's discussed in my copy of "Game Over", which is just about as good of a source as you can hope to find on anything nintendo-related. -- Lee Bailey^(talk) 01:02, 12 June 2006 (UTC)

Here's a GameSpot source, now you can't say that it's not enough: http://www.gamespot.com/features/vgs/universal/mario/3.html Duhman0008 18:33, 12 June 2006 (UTC)

¬_¬ It says "Unauthorised Biography" at the top. H ig hway ^{Rainbow Sneakers} 18:37, 12 June 2006 (UTC)

Jesus Christ, it's still on GameSpot. GameSpot is a reputable online magazine where to employees are paid to put real info, it's not a site run by fanboy like Wikipedia. I could probably go around and remove some stuff myself from this page that don't have the official word of Miyamoto. Duhman0008 19:53, 12 June 2006 (UTC)

And GameSpot is? Okay, have you heard the term, only believe have you what you see, and less of what you hear? If you think that Wikipedia is a collection of "fanboys", then this isn't the place for you. H ig hway ^{Rainbow Sneakers} 19:59, 12 June 2006 (UTC)

Considering that the request for this post has been made 2 days ago, it's clear that this is a fanboy site where you have to achieve a certain amount of credibility before anyone adds your discovery to a page. I would have added myself, but then I would have had to repelled fanboys left and right. Fact is, I could have a live recording of Minoru Arakawa telling the story of how Mario got named and you would still not post it because the discovery was made by a newby.Duhman0008 20:09, 12 June 2006 (UTC)

We wouldn't knock it off it if came from a reliable source, (ie - not GameSpot) the fact you are having a go at us, makes us value your opinion slightly less. You are on the edge of breaching WP:DICK, so I'd be careful where you tread. This isn't a warning, I'm telling you plainly that your attitude is way out of line. H ig hway ^{Rainbow Sneakers} 21:49, 12 June 2006 (UTC)

GameSpot not a reliable source, I'm sorry, but in what crazy world do you live in? Oh wait, I know, it's the one where Every big company that's making money out of something we enjoy while we don't is automatically bad and we're superior.

Face the facts, these guys are in the game business and making money out of it, and we don't. So in the gaming world, we are customers, that's it that's all. To state that a magazine or website is not reputable just makes you look jealous that you're not being paid to play games for a living.

Oh and don’t reply saying that you work for a gaming company cause that one’s getting old (everyone says that when I make them realize that they are nothing but customers).

Duhman0008 23:58, 12 June 2006 (UTC)

GameSpot is not a reliable source. I'm not a employee of them, but I am a journalist, so I think I can tell the difference between verifiable and up for debate. Here's a hint, the word Unofficial is at the top! H ig hway ^{Rainbow Sneakers} 07:25, 13 June 2006 (UTC)

Journalist with free time to play around forums, aren't you lucky, my cousin would kill for that. Wrote any good articles I could read on the web? I'm asking this but I'm sure that you won't give me a link or tell me that your articles are never published on the web. Anyway, journalist or not, you can’t deny that a story passed around for decades on TV, Magazines or Websites can’t have a hint of truth in it.

For the moment, I’ll let my little journalist instincts (deduction + knowledge of human mind) tell me that if the author of this page would have brought up the subject, you would have been amongst the first one to applaud the finding.Duhman0008 12:22, 13 June 2006 (UTC)

Good point, because there were lots of Weapons of mass destruction! H ig hway ^{Rainbow Sneakers} 15:46, 13 June 2006 (UTC)

Good idea, let's compare this with a totally different subjects, that way; we can avoid talking about the subject I've just stomp you with.Duhman0008 16:00, 13 June 2006 (UTC)

"you can’t deny that a story passed around for decades on TV, Magazines or Websites can’t have a hint of truth in it." Bog off ; ) H ig hway ^{Rainbow Sneakers} 16:24, 13 June 2006 (UTC)

Stop trying playing ignorant, I was referring to the Mario story and you know it.Duhman0008 17:20, 13 June 2006 (UTC)

Seemed pretty general to me. H ig hway ^{Rainbow Sneakers} 19:46, 13 June 2006 (UTC)

I get the feeling that a lot of things are pretty general for you.Duhman0008 20:32, 13 June 2006 (UTC)

Whoa whoa whoa. Chill. All I'm saying is that if you can find a source that serious gamers consider reputable (like GameFAQs, where the aforementioned GameSpot gets its in-game information from, I might add), then I will consider accepting it. There's just too much misinformation in the world, and the Internet does not help. Find a source, state it, and I will review it. (It would help if others reviewed it, too.) And one more thing: if you look down below the edit box, it says: If you don't want your writing to be edited mercilessly or redistributed by others, do not submit it. That includes deletion. Please, all I'm asking is one reputable source. — SheeEttin {T/C} 19:52, 13 June 2006 (UTC)

Don't worry SheeEttin, that crap was for Highway. Now, regarding your reply, who's to say what's reputable these days. If we start going into details, half the stuff on this page could be removed. A lot of the info comes from different Game website, how do we know that they didn't make it up? Also, let's not forget that a lot of stuff has been taken from the NA and EURO versions of Mario games, how do we know that the translators didn't make mistakes or simply hidden some stuff in order not to confuse Americans or Europeans (Asian related culture for example). Technically, any statements from the games must be taken from the Japanese versions and nothing else since this Mario is of Japanese origin.

Also, this page gives statements taken from the old Super Mario American cartoon. Since this is in no way Japanese or reviewed by Miyamoto, nothing from the TV show should be on this page. I mean if I were to produce a Super Mario cartoon and somehow managed to have it aired on TV, would any additions in my cartoon be of any relevant information since I would have made it up in the first place? If I were to make an episode where a long lost Mario brother that got separated at birth rejoined Mario and Luigi, would my new character be part of Mario's world now?Duhman0008 20:47, 13 June 2006 (UTC)

Wait. What?

As for the where-Mario-got-his-name story, that belongs in the article, but make sure it's backed up by a reliable source. If nobody can come up with one, I'll do that. (Oh, and HC? Gamespot is a reliable source. The "unauthorized biography" bit is tongue-in-cheek, that's all.)

Duhman, please chill out. The TV show and movie stuff are handled fairly decently in this article, and it's not reasonable to ignore the fact that they exist just because they aren't Japanese. - A Man In Bl♟ck (conspire | past ops) 21:06, 13 June 2006 (UTC)

Well, we certainly don't want to exclude everything non-Japanese. Most statements about the cartoon concern only the cartoon. Now, all I'm asking is at least one reliable source (e.g. NOA/J, GameFAQs, etc.), and then it can be added and cited. I personally don't consider GameSpot reputable because most of its information is user-submitted and not verified. (The quality of message board users doesn't help, either.) If you can find a source that seems reputable compared to the likes of GameFAQs, then by all means go ahead. (Small note: some other places I don't consider reputable: IGN, GameInformer, GameSpy. Mostly beacause their reputations precede them or I'm not familiar with them.) — SheeEttin {T/C} 21:18, 13 June 2006 (UTC)

I think you have things backwards. GameFAQs is user-submitted and not checked. GameSpot is a professional publication (then again, so are IGN and GameInformer and the GameSpy main site, but they do generally pass as reliable sources). - A Man In Bl♟ck (conspire | past ops) 21:25, 13 June 2006 (UTC)

You must have a smaller resolution than I. ;) Anyway, I consider GameFAQs pretty well-maintaned, mostly because they have a large userbase that consists mainly of people who will go out of their way to correct people and generally be exceptionally useful. (The "Samus in Christmas Suit" episode springs to mind.) I probably can't go to GameSpot and ask a stupid question somewhere, and expect a decent answer. However, when on GameFAQs, I, along with most of the others, try to point them to the oft-stickied FAQ topic. (Things do get annoying, occasionally, and honestly...) I found that when asking veterans of a game I had just started, I got a very helpful response, and I try to do the same, as the situation will certainly be reversed. But I digress; back to the current subject. many sites may be professional, but that does not mean they are correct. In fact, I find most user-maintained sites are often the most expansive and accurate. Example? You're in one. — SheeEttin {T/C} 21:52, 13 June 2006 (UTC)

SheeEttin, I'm afraid your ways of thinking are inverted to what the majority would consider a reliable source. GameSpot is owned by CNET [1], one of THE Internet Giants out there. If anything, personal owned websites, forums and places like this where anybody can post and edit would be second to large commercial websites. GameSpot is the sort of website that could actually get sued for stating wrong information. So to recap, GameFaqs belongs to GameSpot, GameSpot belongs to CNET and CNET belongs to me (well in my dreams anyway).Duhman0008 22:36, 13 June 2006 (UTC)

I restart the indents when I can't easily count the colons any more.

GameFAQs is much like IMDB or Everything2; it's useful to point you to the correct source or when it duplicates a reliable source in an easy-to-check way, but it's not reliable on its own.

GameSpot's forums aren't a reliable source, but neither are GameFAQs's. Forums are never a reliable source.

However you may feel about them, most user-maintained sites are not reliable sources because there's little or no consistent editorial oversight. - A Man In Bl♟ck (conspire | past ops) 22:18, 13 June 2006 (UTC)

Honestly, I find things that are owned and operated by a corporation (i.e. GameSpot & CNET) to be a bit less accurate, mostly because they aren't the ones who are actually in there in the games doing the things. Would you (as a manager) rather have your product made by people only motivated to make it by being paid or people who make it because they find it fun? (They would be paid too, obviously.) But this is getting monotonous. All I need is a source. One source, that isn't from a one-man website. — SheeEttin {T/C} 17:15, 14 June 2006 (UTC)

more iconic then micky mouse?

I heard somewhere that the Mario charecter was more iconic then MIcky mouse, this true? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 67.189.99.161 (talk • contribs) .

Infobox

Okay, so we're getting into a bit of an edit war with the infobox. I, personally, would like to keep it. You might say that no other Nintendo characters have infoboxen: I think they could use them. Most major characters in anything else (TV, Movies, etc.) have infoboxen. Why shouldn't video game characters? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by SheeEttin (talk • contribs) .

OK, so cite his weight. His age? His homeworld? There is more uncited, unverifiable information in that infobox than there is in most articles. It adds nothing to the article but cruft. --Golbez 18:03, 14 June 2006 (UTC)

I'm with Golbez on this one; it may be humourous, but it's not encyclopedia material. If an infobox is used, it would make more sense to have appearances in video games and popular culture mentioned, date of inception, creator, artists, etc. Homeland is useless in this case. --Xinit 18:20, 14 June 2006 (UTC)

- What about -
  - first appearance
  - best selling game/most successful game
  - occupation
  - creator

Sound fair enough? H ig hway ^{Rainbow Sneakers} 18:55, 14 June 2006 (UTC)

All of which is already contained in the introduction paragraph. There's no standardized template for video characters (thankfully), so we shouldn't start making up things to go in there. --Golbez 18:58, 14 June 2006 (UTC)

No, god let's not rip apart the intro. I know certain games have templates for this stuff, Pokémon has one for Pokémon and has one for characters, but I don't see it adding any value to the article. (And the character one is hideous ¬_¬) H ig hway ^{Rainbow Sneakers} 19:05, 14 June 2006 (UTC)

Well, there is {{General CVG character}}. I'm not sure what it would add to this article, but it is there to use. - A Man In Bl♟ck (conspire | past ops) 21:25, 14 June 2006 (UTC)

Some people would only visit the page for quick facts (e.g. citations, fact checks), and they don't really want to read paragraphs for information. I'm going to see about making a series-specific infobox for the Mario series, and maybe a few others to go with other major series. I do things like that when I get motivated. If you'd like to see what it looks like right this second, see User:SheeEttin/cvg-infobox. I don't save often when editing, though, so any edits won't be seen for a while. — SheeEttin {T/C} 22:53, 14 June 2006 (UTC)

You don't have to modify {{General CVG character}} to make a Mario series template. It's made so that it's easy to make sub-boxes for series-specific information. I suggest you take a look at {{Metal Gear character}} and base your work on that, so that you're not duplicating effort and so that your box can easily be integrated into the universal box. - A Man In Bl♟ck (conspire | past ops) 23:10, 14 June 2006 (UTC)

You tell me this after I finish it. Well, it's not finished, but... Anyway, as I was looking at it, I was kind of thinking the same thing, but maybe add a

to the top right, though I can't see how to align to both left and center in the smae line, and frankly, I don't think it can be done. I'm probably just going to do what you said. — SheeEttin {T/C} 23:33, 14 June 2006 (UTC)

Freeze people! Anyone that has a high enough IQ to get here can read the opening paragraph. I don't see the advantage of doubling information. H ig hway ^{Rainbow Sneakers} 06:44, 15 June 2006 (UTC)

Well, I agree, but I don't feel so strongly as to stop someone from using an infobox on this article, and I suggested a standard, non-cruft-heavy one. - A Man In Bl♟ck (conspire | past ops) 07:00, 15 June 2006 (UTC)

Hm... I guess we'll get rid of it for now, and maybe put one in if someone makes one at some point in the future. If nobody has any objections, I think it's about time to archive the talk page. — SheeEttin {T/C} 18:03, 15 June 2006 (UTC)

Just wondering, where does the info about Mario's weight come from? And is that weight accompanied by a height? Because 75 pounds for an adult male is definately a rather unusual statistic. -- Lee Bailey^(talk) 13:36, 16 June 2006 (UTC)

Free image of Mario

There is now a free image of Super Mario, see sv:Bild:Stefsupermario.jpg. /81.170.235.234 12:11, 17 June 2006 (UTC)

Uh... and what exactly do you want to do with this? — SheeEttin {T/C} 18:46, 17 June 2006 (UTC)

He is just informing there is a free image of Mario. I am not sure if it is really free, though, but could be. The image can be included in the English Wikipedia if so. -- ReyBrujo 19:03, 17 June 2006 (UTC)

I don't read that language (Svenskä, I think--I don't even know what that is. Is it Swedish?), but that looked like the GNU license template, so it would be considered free. I'm still not sure where it would be included, or why. — SheeEttin {T/C} 19:14, 17 June 2006 (UTC)

Mario in popular culture, a section that is apparently missing in the article. -- ReyBrujo 19:16, 17 June 2006 (UTC)

I have some magazines with readers complaining about Mario setting examples in the plumbing industry, would you consider that culture? ;) I am trying to be serious, but whatever. H ig hway ^{Rainbow Sneakers} 20:15, 17 June 2006 (UTC)

And I don't think it's popular culture, pretty sure that's a sign near the German Nintendo of Europe head office. H ig hway ^{Rainbow Sneakers} 20:16, 17 June 2006 (UTC)

In any case, if anyone has some material for a Mario in popular culture section, we might have a use for it. — SheeEttin {T/C} 23:35, 17 June 2006 (UTC)