Talk:Gopher (protocol)
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 | Gopher+ was nominated for deletion. The discussion was closed on 10 July 2021 with a consensus to merge. Its contents were merged into Gopher (protocol). The original page is now a redirect to this page. For the contribution history and old versions of the redirected article, please see its history; for its talk page, see here. |
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LOL
[edit]Jun 05 23:15:11 <dsf777b> https://gitlab.com/SSS8555/acid - gopher client with page caching Jun 05 23:15:50 <dsf777b> https://gitlab.com/SSS8555/save_gopher_server Safe, secure and standalone portable gopher server with G6 extention Jun 05 23:34:04 <zcrayfish> What does the G6 do that gopher+ didn't do? Jun 05 23:34:39 <zcrayfish> Also are you a fan of THX1138? :) Jun 05 23:37:32 <dsf777b> 1. requests for line ranges Jun 05 23:37:32 <dsf777b> 2. CRC32 in requests to prevent sending files in cache Jun 05 23:37:32 <dsf777b> 3. transfer size and error codes Jun 05 23:37:32 <dsf777b> 5. user filling forms Jun 05 23:37:32 <dsf777b> 6. realtime data streaming Jun 05 23:37:32 <dsf777b> 7. TFTP support Jun 05 23:38:27 <nm0i> Looks like features. Features are bad. Jun 05 23:39:13 <zcrayfish> 5 is a gopher+ feature.... 7 is for uploads? Jun 05 23:39:20 <dsf777b> everething optional and backward compatable Jun 05 23:41:04 <dsf777b> upload files not yet supported Jun 05 23:41:30 <zcrayfish> I don't understand the purpose of TFTP support in that case. Jun 05 23:41:43 <dsf777b> also gopher+ dont have any user filling forms Jun 05 23:42:15 <dsf777b> TFTP for low end clients and high load servers Jun 05 23:47:52 <dsf777b> https://gitlab.com/SSS8555 Jun 05 23:52:52 <zcrayfish> no cgi support.... but forms support? Jun 05 23:53:46 <dsf777b> it save all posts in configureted directory, a script can check the dir and perform some actions Jun 05 23:55:09 <dsf777b> have script to compile site for TFTP server Jun 05 23:55:41 <dsf777b> HTML to Gopher converter with links
— Preceding unsigned comment added by Edia4545m (talk • contribs) 04:11, 19 July 2021 (UTC)
External links modified
[edit]Hello fellow Wikipedians,
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- Added archive https://web.archive.org/20110804183515/http://gopher.floodgap.com:80/1/new to http://gopher.floodgap.com/1/new
- Added archive https://web.archive.org/20110804183515/http://gopher.floodgap.com:80/1/new to //gopher.floodgap.com/1/new
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- The bot failed to rescue this link. I'll fix it eventually, but if anyone is able to fix it before me, that would be nice. zcrayfish (talk) 08:10, 21 October 2021 (UTC)
Origins subpara: "The standard method of locating someone's email address "
[edit]The subparagraph "By 1992, the standard method of locating someone's e-mail address was to find their organization's CCSO nameserver entry in Gopher, and query the nameserver" has no citation to back up this statement (the cited link is merely to a newsgroup article on the subject). "The standard method" implies that this was widespread across all email users, and that it would be used by most people on the internet. As a user in 1992 I certainly never came across it, and unless I'm mistaken no-one I ever spoke to used this mechanism, and although it may have been "standard method" within a restricted set of users (those organisations that were using gopher already, say) that would definitely require the text receive some qualification. gwinkless (talk) 16:21, 16 October 2017 (UTC)
S6
[edit]Am I the only one who considers the S6 G6 additions to the gophertypes section to be unnotable? They're not in the RFC or the gopher+ or gopherII proposals.
As far as I can tell those additions are more or less reinventing many gopher+ features, and are only supported by one client (which is flagged as malware by Windows Defender) and one server... Neither of which are widely in use, and most references I see to them are from, to put it bluntly, spam on wikipedia and IRC.
zcrayfish (talk) 13:45, 26 June 2021 (UTC)
More sources
[edit]The following sources might be useful:
- Internet Publishing Handbook, Chapter 3: Gopher and Gopher+
- The Web may have won, but Gopher tunnels on
- Overbite Project brings Gopher protocol to Android
Anton.bersh (talk) 08:27, 5 July 2021 (UTC)
Non-WWW software in web clients section.
[edit]Hello all, I have removed ACID, Gophie, and Lagrange from the list of web clients as they do not appear to be web clients at all. I think the article should have a native gopher client section in which these software would fit in. zcrayfish (talk) 03:36, 19 July 2021 (UTC)
Gopher G6
[edit]Hello IP editor and Zcrayfish, you seem to be involved in a very slow edit war. I invite you to discuss your editorial opinions here. I see that IP editor for references provided only links to some GitLab project, which probably does not meet Wikipedia definition of reliable source. One reference actually just leads to a generic index page and not a specific documents which would support the statements. Since IP editor did not provide a sources, I agree with Zcrayfish until IP editor demonstrates good sources. Anton.bersh (talk) 09:37, 19 July 2021 (UTC)
- Hi there, I welcome input by the 36.37.192.0/20 user. As of the time of this posting (I didn't see your message until after I made my most recent revert) I will refrain from reverting changes from 36.37.192.0/20. I did make a mention of the situation above in the S6[sic, should have been G6] section above. 10:51, 19 July 2021 (UTC)
- The sources pretty decent, reverting to Gopher G6 section Edia4545m (talk) 11:50, 19 July 2021 (UTC)
- Even of the source was decent (which I don't consider it to be great, as it's overly terse), the G6 extension does not seem to be notable, it seems to be supported by less gopher servers and client software than even Gopher+ (1 and 1 respectively at my last count)...
- Additionally are there any publicly accessible servers? If this is something that is only accessible to 127.0.0.1 in a single homelab, it really fails to be notable. 12:07, 19 July 2021 (UTC)
- https://pastebin.com/9c6L8yhA and many local industrial servers Edia4545m (talk) 12:42, 19 July 2021 (UTC)
- The source that was added is a personal account on gitlab. It includes a fork of bucktooth (without required license), a simplistic python client that appears hard-coded to pull from a single server and is stuffed with an issue log of spam buzzwords by its own author. That's far from a decent source. Meanwhile this same project leader has been harrassing other gopher channels, such as IRC, and forums (kiwifarms links are banned from wikipedia or I'd include it here) with inflamatory speech. I agree with Zcrayfish that there's no basis that suggests G6 or S6 or whatever he's calling it today has any notable presence. Jamestomasino (talk) 16:01, 19 July 2021 (UTC)
- Lets fact check:
- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bucktooth VS https://gitlab.com/SSS8555/save_gopher_server source code equal in 35 strings of 5000
- The "simplistic python client" is part of documentation for developers https://gitlab.com/SSS8555/python_g6_client
- "simplistic python client" not only G6 client available, here is https://gitlab.com/SSS8555/acid
- Issue log of spam made not by author
- Who it the "project leader" you dont like so mach? Is he bad?
- Edia4545m (talk) 03:08, 20 July 2021 (UTC)
- Hi, Edia4545m I have added ":::" before your itemized list entries to fix indentation. Please use "Show preview" button to preview your comment and make sure it's easy to read. Thanks! Anton.bersh (talk) 07:16, 20 July 2021 (UTC)
- Bucktooth does not have any sources either, but let's discuss its notability separatelly on Talk:Bucktooth. Anton.bersh (talk) 07:26, 20 July 2021 (UTC)
- I do not see any sources about G6 or S6 which would meet Wikipedia definition of reliable sources. I do not consider the following sources reliable:
- Gopher G6 source code repositary on GitLab and all its contents. This is user-generated and user-submitted content which does not pass through any third-party review. Literally anyone can create free account on GitLab and upload pretty much anything.
- Material on Pastebin - not reliable (see above)
- Logs from random chats like in "LOL" section
- Material simply posted somewhere on the internet which lacks attribution and has not been archived somewhere (not necessarily online) and therefore does not meet Wikipedia definition of "published". It's simple to archive a document on internet via Internet Archive. However, note that being "archived" is a required but not sufficient qualification of a source. That is being "archived" is a prerequisite for a reliable source, not a guarantee that a the source will be considered reliable.
- Please let me know of any other sources. Anton.bersh (talk) 09:31, 20 July 2021 (UTC)
- Here is list of Wiki pages for (You) for check:
- Lets fact check:
| Server | Developed by | Latest version | Release date | License | Written in | Notes |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| Aftershock | Rob Linwood | 1.0.1 | 22 April 2004 | MIT | Java | |
| Apache::GopherHandler | Timm Murray | 0.1 | 26 March 2004 | GPLv2 or any later version | Perl | Apache 2 plugin to run Gopher-Server. |
| Atua | Charles Childers | 2017.4 | 9 October 2017 | ISC | Forth | |
| Bucktooth | Cameron Kaiser | 0.2.9 | 1 May 2011 | Floodgap Free Software License | Perl | |
| Flask-Gopher | Michael Lazar | 2.2.1 | 11 April 2020 | GPLv3 | Python | |
| geomyid | Quinn Evans | 0.0.1 | 10 August 2015 | 2-clause BSD | Common Lisp | |
| geomyidae (gopher link) (proxied link) | Christoph Lohmann | 0.34 | 13 March 2019 | MIT | C | |
| GN | xripclaw | 2.25-20020226 | 26 February 2002 | GPL | C | |
| GoFish | Sean MacLennan | 1.2 | 8 October 2010 | GPLv2 | C | |
| Gopher Cannon[dead link] | Geoff Sevart | 1.07 | 8 July 2013 | Freeware | .NET 3.5 (Win32/Win64) | Version 1.06 of 26 August 2010 is available from gopherspace.de (gopher link) (proxied link) |
| Gopher-Server | Timm Murray | 0.1.1 | 26 March 2004 | GPLv2 | Perl | |
| Gophernicus | Kim Holviala and others | 3.1.1 | 3 January 2021 | 2-clause BSD | C | |
| gophrier | Guillaume Duhamel | 0.2.3 | 29 March 2012 | GPLv2 | C | |
| GOPHSERV[dead link] | ? | 0.5 | 30 December 2012 | GPLv3 | FreeBASIC | Version 0.4 is available from gopherspace.de (gopher link) (proxied link) |
| Goscher | Aaron W. Hsu | 8.0 | 20 June 2011 | ISC | Scheme | |
| mgod | Mate Nagy | 1.1 | 29 January 2018 | GPLv3 | C | |
| Motsognir | Mateusz Viste | 1.0.13 | 8 January 2021 | MIT | C | |
| Pituophis | dotcomboom | 1.1 | 16 May 2020 | 2-clause BSD | Python | Python-based Gopher library with both server and client support |
| PyGopherd | John Goerzen | 2.0.18.5 | 14 February 2017 | GPLv2 | Python | Also supports HTTP, WAP, and Gopher+ |
| PyGS | Adam Gurno | 0.3.5 | 7 August 2001 | GPLv2 | Python | Development stopped as of 17 April 2003 |
| Redis | Salvatore Sanfilippo | 6.2.4 | 1 June 2021 | 3-clause BSD | C | |
| save_gopher_server | SSS8555 | 0.777 | 7 July 2020 | ? | Perl | with G6 extension and TFTP |
| Spacecookie | Lukas Epple | 1.0.0.0 | 17 March 2021 | GPLv3 | Haskell | |
| Xylophar | Nathaniel Leveck | 0.0.1 | 15 January 2020 | GPLv3 | FreeBASIC |
- Sd777797 (talk) 12:14, 20 July 2021 (UTC)
- Hello Sd777797, I checked the sources above and could not find a single source mentioning G6 besides SSS8555 account on GitLab. In the above discussion we established that one account posting a piece of code and documentation for it on GitLab does not constitute notability. For a protocol to be notable, there must be at least some reliable commentary about it, e.g., academic or news paper coverage or multiple implementations or any other major reliable coverage.
- Also, please read Wikipedia:But there must be sources!. In short, one can not just say "I know there are sources" and expect others to dig through the whole wealth of human knowledge to prove there are no sources. One has to demonstrate these sources to include the info into the article.
- Anton.bersh (talk) 22:37, 21 July 2021 (UTC)
- Since this in-depth discussion did not yield any sources, I removed the unsupported info. If anyone finds good sources, please cite them and add info these sources state. Thanks! Anton.bersh (talk) 10:14, 26 July 2021 (UTC)
- The sources in the article 36.37.198.115 (talk) 10:22, 26 July 2021 (UTC)
- Hello IP, unfortunatelly I do not see any reliable sources about G6 in the article. Could you actually link them here? Please consider reading Wikipedia:But there must be sources! if you haven't already. Anton.bersh (talk) 22:50, 26 July 2021 (UTC)
- 36.37.192.0/21 has been partially blocked from editing the page for 1 week; 36.37.192.0/21, during that time, please read the links already provided to you regarding reliable sources. If you can find any, feel free to propose them on this talk page. If you resume edit-warring after that block expires, the next block will be longer.OhNoitsJamie Talk 14:58, 27 July 2021 (UTC)
- Hello IP, unfortunatelly I do not see any reliable sources about G6 in the article. Could you actually link them here? Please consider reading Wikipedia:But there must be sources! if you haven't already. Anton.bersh (talk) 22:50, 26 July 2021 (UTC)
- The sources in the article 36.37.198.115 (talk) 10:22, 26 July 2021 (UTC)
- Since this in-depth discussion did not yield any sources, I removed the unsupported info. If anyone finds good sources, please cite them and add info these sources state. Thanks! Anton.bersh (talk) 10:14, 26 July 2021 (UTC)
- Sd777797 (talk) 12:14, 20 July 2021 (UTC)
Server list
[edit]Most of those entries should be removed unless either (1) they have a standalone article like PyGopherd (or, possibly a dedicated section in an article about an enclosing project), or (2) a reliable source can be provided that indicates how the server meets general notability criteria. Wikipedia is not a catalog or directory. If there is a good external list of Gopher clients, a link to that could be included in the "External links" section. OhNoitsJamie Talk 17:37, 27 July 2021 (UTC)
- I agree. I went ahead and removed gn, PyGS, Gopher Cannon, and GOPHSERV as they had either dead links or are unmaintained. More cleanup in that section is needed. zcrayfish (talk) 22:31, 27 July 2021 (UTC)
- What about removing those that haven't been updated in the last few years (exact number of years to be decided), except those that appear to be used on existing gopher sites? I had a look at the servers listed on gopher.floodgap.com/1/new and collected information re server from them. (Many provide no such information.)
Gophernicus: 28
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PyGopherd: 9
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Motsognir: 4
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Bucktooth: 3
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Flask-Gopher: 2
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Geomyidae: 2
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Xylophar: 2
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- 84.69.182.103 (talk) 12:48, 29 July 2021 (UTC)
- I think you're missing the point; Wikipedia is not a catalog or directory; this isn't about whether they've been updated recently, it's about whether or not they are notable and verifiable with third-party sources. A github link is a primary source that only verifies that it exists. OhNoitsJamie Talk 13:43, 29 July 2021 (UTC)
- This conversation likewise applies to the new "clients" section that popped up. Jamestomasino (talk) 10:11, 30 July 2021 (UTC)
- I think you're missing the point; Wikipedia is not a catalog or directory; this isn't about whether they've been updated recently, it's about whether or not they are notable and verifiable with third-party sources. A github link is a primary source that only verifies that it exists. OhNoitsJamie Talk 13:43, 29 July 2021 (UTC)
Semi-protected edit request on 29 September 2021
[edit] | This edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
Please unwikilink John Goerzen as the article has been deleted. Thank you. 84.69.151.40 (talk) 21:38, 29 September 2021 (UTC)
Unreadable screenshots
[edit]The two screenshots in "Gopher characteristics" are unreadable and no higher-res versions are available. They should be replaced or deleted. Thoughts? AmateurHistorian (talk) 19:59, 30 September 2021 (UTC)
- I agree, they appear to be low resolution due to fair-use/copyright concerns... I would be more than happy to take a screenshot of a server that I control (or someone else's if they don't mind) and release said screenshot directly into the public domain; unless anyone has any objections zcrayfish (talk) 03:44, 4 October 2021 (UTC)
Done I have replaced the two screenshots in the "Gopher characteristics" section with a single screenshot I found on wikimedia commons. File:Firefox_Gopher_Directory_Listing.png is an alternate image available there too. zcrayfish (talk) 07:50, 21 October 2021 (UTC)
Removed Kristal screenshot
[edit]I've removed the screenshot of Kristal as I feel it unfairly promotes that client over and above the others listed. Either they all get a screenshot, or none of them do (and I'm saying this as the author of Gopher Browser for Windows). I've left the Firefox one in, as that's a historic client before gopher fully fell out of fashion.
If we want a generic diagram of the structure of a gopher menu, I am happy to draw one for the 'Gopher Characteristics' section? Jaruzel 09:04, 17 July 2022 (UTC)
Removed gophertypes `j' and `w'
[edit]I have removed the gophertypes `j' and `w' from the article as the way they were described do not match extant usage. I was unable to find any documentation whatsoever on type j. As for type w, since the early 90s in at least libwww-based gopher browsers and proxy servers, type w is used for for URLs, not for documents.
The non-canonical item types section is getting large and wishful; it would be nice if folks would cite their sources when adding to this section.
zcrayfish (talk) 02:06, 7 September 2022 (UTC)
Hi, my name is Jorge Luiz Lopes da Silva Junior, my Codename is ChatoEuSou, I insert the Gopher prefix types, i be development in various languages, and create a engine of automaticaly cataloge all pages, subpages, and my engine write in Microsfot Visual Basic 4.o find news prefix gopher type, and i insert in default page of wikipedia about gopher protocol, i no create of nothing, i find, if need, i will go set to your the address here i find this prefix to your see the truth of i say about it, not is a cannonical prefix type of gopher, exactly in insered inf non-cannonical prefix types1 Congratulations! I writing programs in Microsoft visual Basic 3,4,5,6. Too in JABACO (JAva BAsic COmpiler). RealBasic today part of XoJo, RapidQ Basic Compiler, and Lazarus IDE for FreePascal, GAMBAS (Basic for Linux), and i be creating Server and Client Gopher in this development languages! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2804:D41:B02B:6A00:8E9:C354:1691:8D46 (talk) 11:58, 6 November 2022 (UTC) more information send mail to chateeusou@gmail.com, and sorry per my bad english! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2804:D41:B02B:6A00:8E9:C354:1691:8D46 (talk) 11:54, 6 November 2022 (UTC)
Dead link on ref 14
[edit]One of the references, "Hacking Capitalism" by Johan Söderberg links to the internet archive, where the book has been taken down: https://archive.org/details/hackingcapitalis00sder_520 Drewmca (talk) 20:32, 27 April 2024 (UTC)