User talk:Sarabseth

Qawwali/Qawaali

Oops! I followed the wrong procedure in getting rid of a page with an incorrectly-spelled title. I have asked User:Hyacinth how to go about it. Sorry about that. Mona-Lynn 03:18, 30 Mar 2005 (UTC)

qawalli

All I do all day long is listen to qawalli too...I'm trying to set up a website or atleast a series of Wikimedia pages with a comprehensive listing of qawallis along with decent English translations (My Persian and Hindi are decent, Urdu so-so, and Punjabi and Sindhi nonexistent)...interested? --Notquiteauden 11:49, 4 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Definitely! (Though I'm not sure how much time I would have to devote to this in the next few months. Would have a lot more time after July.)

There are, of course, several web sites where you can find transliterations and translations. Almost all of the translations you see, though, are literal translations. They convey the literal meaning (often in purple prose) but very little of the beauty of the original lyrics.

There's a yahoo discussion group (see link under Nusrat Fateh Ali Khan) which has a "comprehensive" listing of Nusrat's qawwalis (also translations, transliterations and other good stuff).

My Hindi, Urdu and Punjabi are reasonable (though I can't read Urdu). I used to write poetry in the days of my youth. I have translated a handful of Nusrat's qawwalis. At some point in the future I certainly want to do some more. Sarabseth 12:17, 8 Apr 2005 (UTC)

NIce to see some Qwali fans . A lot of Nusrat fateh ali's Qawwalis R available here . Hope U guys enjoy it . Its a bit torrent site .

[1]

Btw I think if U include meditation into your hapiness formula , it will benifit U many times more .It wil be like a $H=Q^{2}M^{3}S$ . Farhansher

The link doesn't work. Is something missing?

As for formulae, everyone has to find their own formula. Mine works for me just fine! Sarabseth 21:14, 14 Apr 2005 (UTC)

I ve updated the link , hope it works . If it doesnt , visit www.desitorrents.com , & search/request for Qwwalis . GBs of Qwwalis haveben uploaded there .Farhansher

Thanks! I had tried searching for Nusrat Fateh Ali and that didn't work. Will check it out later. Sarabseth 12:33, 15 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Hello

It is nice to see someone so passionate about Qawwali engaging with the Wikipedia.

I have made the move to Qawwali as the main article on the subject. What do you think?

By the way, have you heard traditional Qawwalis much? Nusrat Fateh brought a lot of us to the form, but there is also great depth and richness in the wider tradition and its spiritual background...—iFaqeer (Talk to me!) 02:31, Apr 19, 2005 (UTC)

Sorry, can you please undo the move? There is some discussion of technical issues relating to this under Talk:Qawwali. The idea is to move the page only when the revision history can be preserved in the move.

Also, in this move that you just made, the discussion under "Talk:Qawalli" has disappeared. Is there a way to preserve that too?

I have listened to traditional qawwali very extensively. My collection includes all kinds of lesser known qawwals too -- practically everyone whose work is available in India in audio CD or video CD formats.

Still, to my mind, Nusrat's qawwali is deeply satisfying in a way that no one else's comes close to being. There is a special magic that Nusrat weaves. In the hands of other qawwals, qawwali can be great, profound music. In Nusrat's hands, it turns into pure distilled magic. (Just my personal opinion; I don't necessarily expect other people to agree. In qawwali, as in life, you have to find your own guide, and your own path.) Sarabseth 20:08, 19 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Not ignoring all this. Will rpely in in a bit.

In the meantime, here's something you might be interested in: I have just finally got to publishing my thoughts and translations on Sufi Poetry in Urdu. For now, it will be mainly on the following page:

http://urdu-ke-naam.blogspot.com

The blog's not really "mine", but a collaboration with some folks who are mainly in Hyderabad (Deccan) (see Hyderabad, India and Hyderabad state), one of the homes of Urdu. MY own main blog is at http://iFaqeer.blogspot.com —iFaqeer (Talk to me!) 20:24, Apr 27, 2005 (UTC)

Kausar

copied over from Talk:Qawaali

I wonder if anyone can explain to me the significance of "Kausar". It comes up often in qawwalis. I know it is the name of a fountain in Paradise, but there is clearly some significance over and above that. Ali is referred to as "Saqi-e-Kausar", and there are references to how he will greet entrants into Paradise and offer them the waters of Kausar to drink. Sarabseth 17:21, 15 Apr 2005 (UTC)

The Kausar reference is from Islamic canon. Kausar/Kawsar is the name of a river in paradise (jannath, firdaus, etc.) that is mentioned in the Qur'an. There is surah by the same name. See: Hauzu'l-Kausar.

Saqi-e-Kausar is not a reference to Ali, but to the The Prophet himself. As in the qawwali sung by the Sabri Brothers:

MaikashoN aa'o, aa'o, Madinay chalo

Dasth-e-saqi-e-kausar say peenay chalo

Or:

Oh Drinkers, come, come let us go to Medina

From the hand of host of the Kausar, let's go to drink

Muhammad is buried in Medina. Ali is in Najaf—thus the reference you hear in qawwalis to Shah-e-Najaf

Hope this helps.—iFaqeer (Talk to me!) 20:21, Apr 27, 2005 (UTC)

Thanks! That's a big help.

I'll have to go back and listen to the Nusrat qawwalis which convinced me that the Kausar references were to Ali.

So there's no specific symbolic significance attached to Kausar, or to Muhammad offering the waters of Kausar to drink? Kausar just loosely represents the abundance to be found in paradise? Sarabseth 21:12, 27 Apr 2005 (UTC)

My apologies. the second line was wrong in the transliteration. I have corrected it.—iFaqeer (Talk to me!) 04:39, Apr 28, 2005 (UTC)

About the additional significance. Well, the references are more implied and metaphysical than some thing I could list as bullets. Here's a rough start as my limited intellect allows:

For Sufis, the stream of Sufi wisdom and knowledge (metaphysical "knowing", rather than written words, of course) is traced back to Muhammad through one of two people he is said to have initiated in that field: Abu Bakar and Ali. So one implication is something of the nature of "let's go to imbibe of this fount of wisdom (gnosis, ma'arifath, irfan...) directly from the source". And when one is talking of streams and liquids to be imbibed, the person at the "source" of it is identified using the symbology of one of the things Islamic tradition says will happen in paradise: those "with Mohammad" will have access to the "Waters" of Kausar. Of course, one underlying thing you have to keep in mind, is that the whole symbology of "drinkers"/"imbibers" (sharaabee, mai-kash, or badha-khaar) has multiple meanings. The question of talking about the imbibing of Sufi wisdom (often considered heretical and thus, like alcohol, forbidden by orthodox Muslims) using the metaphor of drinking alcohol and vice-versa is kept fluid, and is part of the paradigm-subverting nature of Sufi poetry--and its beauty. See also my post on the Urdu ke naam blog about The Object of the Sufi Poet's Devotion.—iFaqeer (Talk to me!) 04:39, Apr 28, 2005 (UTC)

Thanks a lot! Sarabseth 14:31, 28 Apr 2005 (UTC)

---

I reverted the nusrat fateh ali khan page because the copywrite material can be used in this way under the fair use doctrine.

New York qawwali band

Hello, I've just added some information on the new American Nusrat tribute band which is using jazz instruments to play his music. I saw this band live a couple of weeks ago and it was truly transcendent, very respectful of the tradition and reached the same kind of ecstasy that Nusrat was able to achieve. They are all Americans and they sing in Punjabi and Urdu too. If you listen to the sound samples let me know what you think! Best, Badagnani 23:02, 14 September 2005 (UTC)

I played some samples. Let's be clear about one thing: they are a jazz band, not a qawwali band. They are playing jazz versions of qawwali songs. I certainly find it interesting that a jazz group would be inspired to play Nusrat's songs, but I'm not sure I could agree with "reached the same kind of ecstasy that Nusrat was able to achieve". All the samples are instrumental, but in their live performances they sing a little too?

I'm also not so sure this belongs on the Nusrat page (especially if other people decide to add paragraphs about other Tribute to Nusrat albums) but I'll leave it to others to decide. I do think this is an interesting enough development that it belongs on the Qawwali page. Would you consider shifting it there? Sarabseth 13:04, 15 September 2005 (UTC)

Some wonderful Sufi Dhafs

Hello , I too am interested in Sufi Dhafs, though the Sufi Dhafs that usualy listen to is not called qawwali (well it depends on whether we take qawwali to mean Sufi music in general or the music produced by those who call themselves qawwal , can hardly matter anyway), here is a link to CD's of a Sufi master who was an unparalleled master of Tanbur in the past century in Iran , I hope you enjoy them : Ostad Elahi CDs Pasha Abd 17:17, 28 October 2005 (UTC)

Thanks! Sarabseth 14:25, 29 October 2005 (UTC)

You are welcome , I found another source of Sufi music online , this one is realy passionate:Razbar EnsemblePasha Abd 21:37, 29 October 2005 (UTC)

"Template spirituality" for deletion

I thought you might be interested in this . F.a.y.^{تبادله خيال /c} 19:35, 11 November 2005 (UTC)

one day i hear one persian casset of khan sahib befor 5year.from a thos day i searh this casset but i can't found util 20th May 2006 9.00pm.

Holy hay!

Hope you had a good holi. I will be posting some qawwali and poetry quotes about holi at: http://urdukenaam.blogspot.com in a while (tonight or tomorrow), by the way. (I think we were discussing Qawwali a while back, no?) --iFaqeer 06:25, 17 March 2006 (UTC)

Thanks! I'll check out your posts. Sarabseth 12:41, 17 March 2006 (UTC)

Qawwalis

I too love Qawwalis, Nusrat (I have all his albums), the Sabri Brothers... even though my understanding of the lyrics is very limited, (especially when it comes to Persian) - it is though the songs go beyond words and language. (I still read the translations though!)

Looking for more good qawwalis - any pointers would be appreciated! Keep up the good work! Sfacets 12:46, 6 April 2006 (UTC)

Have you checked out the Nusrat discussion group we have on yahoo? There's a link at the bottom of the Qawwali entry and the Nusrat entry. There's lots of good stuff there, including lyrics and translations, and some links for listening and downloading too. Sarabseth 04:03, 7 April 2006 (UTC)

Sabri Brothers

Hi Sarabseth. I have reverted your changes to the external links section on the Sabri Brothers article. The changes you made do not follow the Wikipedia Manual of Style for external links. For future reference it would be best to leave the offical home page of an artist as the first external link. Although this is not offical policy it is consistent with the usage for other artist pages on Wikipedia. The artist's own page is, arguably, the most up-to-date and important external resource for an artist. --Mperry 20:55, 20 June 2006 (UTC)

Hi and thanks! I didn't realize there was an official style format for links. The three links had different styles and I just picked one and made them all the same.

I'm not sure what the definition of an official web site is. That site was added by someone else with that description, and I didn't change the description. But it is not the artists' own page. As best as I can tell, the site belongs to someone who acts as their booking agent (maybe only for Australia and not worldwide; I think I have seen other booking agent sites before). --Sarabseth 12:48, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

I added that site. I thought it might be their official web site. Have you seen any other sites for them that might be the official one? --Mperry 16:27, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

Qawwals tend to be very computer illiterate, especially the older groups. The Sabri Brothers have no official web site. --Sarabseth 12:53, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

You decided to remove a link to an attempted translation of Saqia Aur Pila.

Rather than remove the link and call it "amateur translation riddled with errors" - would it not have been more productive to ditch the smug pretentious attitude and at least provide a more accurate translation or help correct it?

Rather than come in here and fling words like "smug pretentious attitude" in my face, would it not have been more productive to try to be civil? As it is, I have no interest in responding. --Sarabseth 20:25, 11 May 2007 (UTC)

Filmi qawwali

I don't think the word bastardized should be used, but I guess you could explain how filmi qawwali is a for-the-masses version of true qawwali music. But by any means, please do help me improve Filmi qawwali. And it would be truly appreciated if you created a few articles on famous Qawwali songs, especially those by Nusrat Fateh Ali Khan. I love qawwali too, but I'm not that knowledgable on this topic. Thanks! Mar de Sin ^{Talk to me!} 22:41, 18 September 2006 (UTC)

Yes, I realized that right after I posted that talk comment. That's why I deleted the comment, and added the language I did.

I will try and add material to Filmi qawwali as and when time permits, starting with a list of qawwalis that are honorable exceptions to the "bastardized" norm.

But my interest is solely in traditional qawwali, so I probably won't have many contributions to Filmi qawwali.

When you say "articles on famous Qawwali song", I'm not sure what one would put into the article. Certainly for Nusrat songs, especially the more famous ones, a list of all the different versions that are extant might be useful. Any sugestions beyond that? --Sarabseth 13:16, 19 September 2006 (UTC)

I'm thinking of Ankhiyan Udeek Diyan, which have a few other versions too. (I heard as a modernish version by Jinx, and I didn't realize the orig. was by Nusrat!) One example of a short Qawwali song-article is Mast Qalandar. I'm sure one could add where it was produced and who wrote the lyrics and track information, and even some info on what the Qawwali talk about, if its a very specific topic. Thanks! Mar de Sin ^{Talk to me!} 22:27, 20 September 2006 (UTC)

I'd like to start Afreen Afreen, but is it a qawwali? Mar de Sin ^{Talk to me!} 22:33, 20 September 2006 (UTC)

Qawwali

You removed the qualifier I had put in to that article clarifying that Qawwali is the South Asian tradition of Sufi music. The way the article reads now, it seems that this is the one and only musical tradition for any and all Sufis anywhere in the world. That's not accurate...

----iFaqeer 19:36, 13 December 2006 (UTC)

Sorry. Just changed it to read "Qawwali is the devotional music of the Sufis of the Indian sub-continent". Indian sub-continent is a little more specific than South Asia. --Sarabseth 09:07, 14 December 2006 (UTC)

Dont call it petulant

I know that you work for osa you are not allowed commercial catalogues perhaps if the company didnt rip its artist of you would have some new ones —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 84.13.244.75 (talk) 14:46, 25 April 2007 (UTC).

this guy is seriously sick. --Sarabseth 13:29, 26 April 2007 (UTC)

Qawwali revert

Hi there! In what way do you disagree with my changing the text to "some" Sufis? From a Sufi standpoint, it's the music of the Chisthi Order... there are several other prominent orders on the Indian Subcontinent, such as the Naqshbandis, who don't practice Qawwali. And as for the other word I changed... Qawwali was traditionally performed at shrines, not just mainly. Yes obviously it has branched out a lot since then, but the sentence starts out "Originally..." - and originally, it was at shrines. Can you undo your revert please? – cacahuate ^talk 16:33, 3 June 2007 (UTC)

When you say "the devotional music of the Sufis", that does not mean "of all Sufis". To say "some Sufis" is redundant, and makes the opening sentence read awkwardly.

The fact that some Sufi orders don't practice qawwali can certainly be added later. I just don't think it belongs in the opening sentence.

As for the originally/mainly issue, I'm not so sure it was originally performed only at Sufi shrines. "Mainly" is a less controversial construction. If there is some citation to support "only", it can be changed back. --Sarabseth 19:28, 3 June 2007 (UTC)

Um, saying the Sufi does indeed imply all Sufis. That's the very difference between some and the. Saying most wouldn't even be accurate, so implying all is definitely not accurate. That would be like opening the Asia article stating that "Hinduism is the religion of the Asians". And then later on, somewhere in the article (as you suggest) clarifying that, well, actually, there are many religions encompassed within, and that Hindus are just one part of that. Sorry, but I'm changing that back.

As you know it's widely believed that Amir Khusrau invented qawwali, and he would perform it at his teacher's shrine, in Delhi. I'm less worried about that line though, so leave it if you like. – cacahuate ^talk 00:53, 4 June 2007 (UTC)

"Hinduism is the religion of the Asians" is a very poor analogy, in my opinion. Asians have many other religions, the Sufis of the Indian subcontinent have no other devotional music. Qawwali is indeed the only devotional music of the Sufis of the Indian subcontinent.

Will others please chime in with their opinion too?

Amir Khusrau "invented" qawwali while Moinuddin Chishti was still alive. So it was not originally performed at Moinuddin Chishti's shrine. As far as I am aware there is no evidence whatsoever that qawwali was originally performed only at Sufi shrines. --Sarabseth 03:34, 4 June 2007 (UTC)

I have copied this discussion to Talk: qawwali. If anyone wants to add to it, please do so there. --Sarabseth 03:37, 4 June 2007 (UTC)

Dub Qawwali

I just heard this article "Nusrat Fateh Ali Khan: A Sufi Music Master Revived" on NPR and was hoping that you'd be able to work it into Qawwali and Nusrat Fateh Ali Khan. What do you think? Is this dub remix consdiered a good thing for Qawwali music? I wasn't familiar with it until I heard this. Now I am hooked! --travisthurston 02:51, 8 August 2007 (UTC)

This is the first reggae remix of Nusrat I've heard of, but there have been a bunch of remixes before (by British artists of Pakistani/Indian origin). "The Magic Touch" (produced by Bally Sagoo) is a CD that's all remixes; used to be offered on ebay all the time, but I haven't checked for several months now.

There have also been remixes of other qawwali artists (or at least one -- Badar Miandad aka Badar Ali Khan).

Some qawwali fans like the remixes, some don't. I like "The Magic Touch". That NPR link was posted on the yahoo Nusrat newsgroup this morning. I haven't been able to listen to it yet, though.

As to working Dub Qawwali into the Wiki articles, one of these days, when I have some time... Someone else will probably get to it first, in all probability.

Thanks for the message, I appreciate it! --Sarabseth 14:55, 8 August 2007 (UTC)

Nusrat Fateh Ali Khan

I am about to start work on this article, and would like to invite you to collaborate with me on this article to bring it upto FA status. If you are interested in working on this article, please let me know and we can work out a strategy to find sources and work out which FA article to emulate. I think there should be donzes of sources for Ustad Nusrat, and it will be a rewarding experience to bring this great man's page to FA status. --Zaindy^٨٧ 09:03, 9 March 2008 (UTC)

Great! I will be more than happy to work with you on expanding/improving the article. (What is "FA"?) Sarabseth (talk) 12:59, 9 March 2008 (UTC)

Allah hoooooo

No worries, I thought that's what you meant... hope you're well – cacahuate ^talk 18:12, 10 June 2008 (UTC)

Nusrat Fateh Ali Khan

Hello, regarding the discussion about the external links of the Nusrat Fateh Ali Khan article, I just now noticed that the very first edit you made after you joined Wikipedia (over three years ago) was the addition of the group you are now trying to insert back in. Per this observation it appears that you may have a conflict of interest with Wikipedia regarding the link. In keeping with Wikipedia's neutral point of view policy, edits where there is a conflict of interest, or where such a conflict might reasonably be inferred from the tone of the edit and the proximity of the editor to the subject, are strongly discouraged. If you have a conflict of interest, you should avoid or exercise great caution when:

1. editing or creating articles related to you, your organization, or its competitors, as well as projects and products they are involved with;
2. participating in deletion discussions about articles related to your organization or its competitors;
3. linking to the Wikipedia article or website of your organization in other articles (see Wikipedia:Spam); and,
4. avoid breaching relevant policies and guidelines, especially those pertaining to neutral point of view, verifiability of information, and autobiographies.

Thank you, Themfromspace (talk) 17:26, 2 October 2008 (UTC)

Relax, I'm not part of any organization or nefarious enterprise. Moreover, neither 1, 2, 3 or 4 applies in anyway, shape or form.

That link, as you are pointing out, has remained in place for more than 3 years. Maybe there's a reason why all the editors who have worked on this page in all that time felt it made sense to leave it in?

I added the link, you took it out. So if I have a conflict of interest now in this discussion, why don't you?

Why don't you take a timeout yourself? Sarabseth (talk) 03:09, 3 October 2008 (UTC)

November 2008

Please do not add promotional material to Wikipedia. While objective prose about products or services is acceptable, Wikipedia is not intended to be a vehicle for advertising or promotion. Thank you. Themfromspace (talk) 23:25, 21 November 2008 (UTC)

Please do not post outrageously false statements on this page. (What you do on your own page is your own business.) --Sarabseth (talk) 11:53, 22 November 2008 (UTC)

You are an administrator of the yahoo! group that you are promoting on this site. On the group you have canvassed people to come to wikipedia to change the link back saying it has attracted many people to your group. That is clearly using wikipedia as promotion. Themfromspace (talk) 03:33, 23 November 2008 (UTC)

Hi!

Nice to work with you again (on Khusro)!

--iFaqeer (talk) 05:30, 11 December 2008 (UTC)

I was thinking the same thing! --Sarabseth (talk) 13:36, 11 December 2008 (UTC)

Successor of Hazrat Nizamuddin

Hello. I saw your change on the Nizamuddin article and I wish to possibly correct you on one point. It is quite common for Sufi masters to give Khilafat or successorship to many of their cherished disciples who are then authorized to continue the spiritual chain themselves. (On rare occassions a Sufi has even got successorship from 2 different Sufi masters giving him two predecessors.) For example Baba Farid, gave khilafat or successorship to Hazrat Nizamuddin and Alauddin Sabir Kaliyari both. They both continued the Chisti silsila separately through the Chisti-Nizami order and the Chisti-Sabiri order. Similarly Hazrat Nizamuddin also had various successors. Regards--Shahab (talk) 16:17, 15 June 2009 (UTC)

I didn't realize that "Successor" in this template had any meaning other than the conventional English meaning. The template seems to be a generic religious infobox, not specific to Sufism. So what does "Successor" mean in this template? --Sarabseth (talk) 01:41, 16 June 2009 (UTC)

Sorry for the late response. In that template, successor probably has the conventional english meaning. Maybe a similar infobox with the word Prominent Khalifas instead of successor would be a good idea for Sufi saints. Regards--Shahab (talk) 12:56, 19 June 2009 (UTC)

Just wanted to let you know: I've asked an Islamic scholar and found that Chirag Dehlvi was the one who took Hazrat Nizamuddin's place in Delhi after Hazrat Nizamuddin's demise and in that sense he may be designated the chief successor. Also Amir Khusro was not made a khalifa by Hazrat Nizamuddin. Regards--Shahab (talk) 09:53, 21 June 2009 (UTC)

Thanks! You should probably edit the article to reflect the first fact. I was pretty sure of the second fact after doing some internet research, which is why I took out Khusro's name from the infobox. --Sarabseth (talk) 11:02, 21 June 2009 (UTC)

Proposed deletion of Qawwal Bahauddin

A proposed deletion template has been added to the article Qawwal Bahauddin, suggesting that it be deleted according to the proposed deletion process because of the following concern:

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Proposed deletion of Abida Parveen

A proposed deletion template has been added to the article Abida Parveen, suggesting that it be deleted according to the proposed deletion process because of the following concern:

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All contributions are appreciated, but this article may not satisfy Wikipedia's criteria for inclusion, and the deletion notice should explain why (see also "What Wikipedia is not" and Wikipedia's deletion policy). You may prevent the proposed deletion by removing the {{dated prod}} notice, but please explain why you disagree with the proposed deletion in your edit summary or on its talk page.

Please consider improving the article to address the issues raised because, even though removing the deletion notice will prevent deletion through the proposed deletion process, the article may still be deleted if it matches any of the speedy deletion criteria or it can be sent to Articles for Deletion, where it may be deleted if consensus to delete is reached. -- The Red Pen of Doom 02:56, 16 July 2009 (UTC)

Appreciate the head-up(s). I'll look at the relevant Wikipedia documents and see what I can do to address the concerns. --Sarabseth (talk) 18:03, 16 July 2009 (UTC)

Sufi Saints of South Asia

Hello Sarabseth. I notice that you are interested in Sufism. I have put forth a request on the Reward Board for assistance in bringing the Sufi Saints of South Asia article to at least B-class. All meaningful contributors will get barnstars. The article is in dire need of being developed. It is an important article in relation to Islam in South Asia. Please help in developing the article. Regards--Shahab (talk) 12:44, 26 August 2009 (UTC)

Mee too interested in South Asia sufism. Please add me, i can provide lot of authentic information about south Indian sufis.Wasifwasif (talk)

Maqbara

Dear Sarabseth, Earlier through our discussion teh contents of maqbara where shifted to a new article called madurai maqbara. But thereafter the article maqbara remains orphan and lot of tags are being placed on that nice article. So as a creator of the page MAQBARA i personally feel all the related topics can be brought under one roof. Your comments and suggestions are welcome. - wasifwasif

I don't think it makes sense to have an article called "Maqbara", if the vast majority of the content is going to consist of the "Madurai Maqbara" material. "Maqbara" should contain only general information about that one concept. Specific maqbaras (Madurai or Bibi ka) should have their own articles, which are listed in "Maqbara" under "See Also".

I think it is unfortunately true that the Maqbara article exists pretty much just as a dictionary definition right now. However, every topic is not cut out to support a wikipedia article.

My suggestion would be to take the "Maqbara" material and integrate it into the "Madurai Maqbara" article. In other words, the "Madurai Maqbara" article can contain a short section explaining the term maqbara. However, as I have said on the "Maqbara Talk" page, the current content of "Maqbara" is lifted word for word from maqbara.com. That constitutes plagiarism, and is not permitted under Wikipedia policy. So the "Maqbara" material would have to be rewritten for the "Madurai Maqbara" article. --Sarabseth (talk) 12:51, 9 December 2009 (UTC)

Sorry. The contents of maqbara.com are as such copied from wikipedia maqbara. As you may eb aware, Otherwise wiki wouldn't have allowwed to put that contents.

In that case, I apologize. It's hard for a third person to tell who copied from whom. I guess it didn't make any sense to me that someone would actually construct an entire website where all the content was just copied from Wikipedia (I still don't see the point of doing that!), so I had assumed Maqbara.com was the original.

I'll go ahead and copy these last two comments to Talk:Maqbara, since I had also put a plagiarism comment there. --Sarabseth (talk) 13:30, 10 December 2009 (UTC)

When it was decided to move the contents you said, "So be it. (In retrospect, it's pretty funny that you called me stubborn.) --Sarabseth (talk) 11:30, 5 January 2010 (UTC)" -But you hav moved now. Why is it? -Wasifwasif

I do not understand your question.

If you want to ask me something related to edits of Maqbara, please do so on the Talk: Maqbara page, not here. --Sarabseth (talk) 15:05, 27 January 2010 (UTC)

ok Fine See you there. thanks --Wasifwasif

Dead reference

What do u exactly mean by dead reference in wikipedia? .-- wasifwasif.

The web pages they point to no longer exist. Clicking on the links produces an error messsage.

For questions like these, you need not come to my talk page. You can ask them on Talk:Maqbara. That way, the response is available to anyone else who may have the same question. --Sarabseth (talk) 13:54, 30 December 2009 (UTC)

Qutbuddin Bakhtiar Kaki

Osh is a historical city in Fergana valley. Farghana province was created in 20th century and also is situated in Ferghana valley. Uzbekistan and Kyrgyz Republic didn't exist as a country at the time of Qutbuddin Bakhtiar Kaki. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Torebay (talk • contribs) 19:11, 19 January 2010 (UTC)

That's pretty much what I figured out when I made those edits yesterday. --Sarabseth (talk) 21:47, 19 January 2010 (UTC)

Ilm Ali Shah Jilani

Hi Sarabseth, I agree with you. Have added a notability template to the article and tagged a couple of key facts. Can another speedy be raised, or does it have to go to AfD? If so, do you want to do that? Thanks. Esowteric+Talk 16:17, 22 January 2010 (UTC)

I don't know too much about these things. Will research if another speedy can be raised, and what AfD is. --Sarabseth (talk) 18:34, 22 January 2010 (UTC)

Just realized that AfD is probably Articles for Deletion. --Sarabseth (talk) 19:03, 22 January 2010 (UTC)

That's the one. Sorry, only just seen your messages as I have loads of tabs open writing an article :) Esowteric+Talk 19:10, 22 January 2010 (UTC)

AfD nomination of Hazrat Syed Qalandar Ilm Ali Shah Jilani

An article that you have been involved in editing, Hazrat Syed Qalandar Ilm Ali Shah Jilani, has been listed for deletion. If you are interested in the deletion discussion, please participate by adding your comments at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Hazrat Syed Qalandar Ilm Ali Shah Jilani. Thank you.

Please contact me if you're unsure why you received this message. Esowteric+Talk 10:05, 23 January 2010 (UTC)

Sufi Films

Sufi FIlms has nothing to do with Sufism, you can't be serious. There are very few sources in the media promoting films with a Sufi sensibility. While you may disagree with Sufi Films gentle approach in making films that have a sufi sensibility, like the Sufi or Islamic practice of medical cupping or using meditation oils attars to reach the divine, you have no right to deprive others of this information or hinder the promotion of Sufi oriented media ecause you disagree. Furthermore, if you looked a little harded at the website and films already produced like the biography of Sheikh Nazim, clearly Sufi subject matter, then you may change your mind.

I do agree that the Spiritual Circle link is not what it, at first glance, appeared to be (Sufi) and thus it is being removed. I hope that satisfies your objections. I do intend to add other production, film and media companies to this site as they are a valuable resource under this category as is Quawali Music is to you. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 97.123.26.52 (talk) 19:58, 8 February 2010 (UTC)

Don't be absurd. Anyone can give their company any name. If you look at their own website that you linked to in Sufism, it doesn't claim any Sufi content to their films, or anything resembling Sufi sensibility. There is just some roundabout stuff about correcting Western misconceptions about Islam. Vague talk of "gentle approach in making films" and "sufi sensibility" by you hardly justifies their inclusion in the Sufism article.

There may be other articles where including a link to Sufi Films may make sense, but nothing on their website justifies adding a link to Sufism.

Copying this discussion to Talk:Sufism, as well, which is where you should have posted your comment in the first place. And I'll leave it to other editors to adjudicate this issue, instead of reverting your edit. --Sarabseth (talk) 21:39, 8 February 2010 (UTC)

Can I ask your particular expertise on what is Sufi. I'm serious, because I am at a loss as to why you would think a film company would deceive theri audience by calling what they do Sufi Films and not make Sufi Films. Sufi Films has a film called Spiritual Circles, it jumps off of the Sufi Hadra "circle" and explores the comminality of all spiritual paths that utilize circles to reach the Divine, this is from the Director. Historically Sufi's approach the masses with a subtle wisdom that seems to elude you. I would think anyone who really wants to see Sufism understood would be thrilled to see companies like this working in this genre of filmmaking. I hope you are not someone who has an agenda and are here to waste people's time who have practiced sufism for twenty or more years and are better able to determine what Sufi means and is. In short it is controling the ego, which seems to be the agenda. So please reflect a little and contemplate your motives and do not argue for sake of arguing. I really would like to know your credentials other than some interest in Sufi music. —Preceding unsigned comment added by BeUnknown (talk • contribs) 21:57, 8 February 2010 (UTC)

Looking at the site again, they have a film institute to train people to make Sufi oriented films. They have a stock footage house to preserve Sufi film and photos and they are non-profit. I intend to report this as vandalism if it continues. Peace! —Preceding unsigned comment added by BeUnknown (talk • contribs) 22:00, 8 February 2010 (UTC)

Please continue this discussion at Talk:Sufism and not here. Copying the last 2 comments there too, and replying on that page. --Sarabseth (talk) 22:06, 8 February 2010 (UTC)

Gohar Shahi

Hi Sarabseth, just for your info, there's a thread about a 119.nnn.nnn.nnn IP (but which is basically related to Gohar Shahi edits) on the Administration noticeboard at:

• Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents#Need help with a situation. You may wish to comment. Thanks. Esowteric+Talk 09:43, 9 February 2010 (UTC)

Thanks. I did add a very brief comment. But with the Sufi Films edits at Sufism, snow and more snow, and stuff going on in my personal life, I have my hands pretty full right now. There are enough people already involved in this discussion, so I'm just going to stay out of it.

If you continue to monitor the discussion and something dramatic happens, feel free to give me a heads-up again. --Sarabseth (talk) 13:00, 9 February 2010 (UTC)

Honorific titles

Hi back,... I just took "honorifics" to mean both honorific suffixes and also honorific titles/prefixes. Your best bet is to ask Jayen466. He's well versed in such things and a Vet IV editor. Esowteric+Talk 17:35, 11 February 2010 (UTC)

Thanks! I'll do that. --Sarabseth (talk) 18:56, 11 February 2010 (UTC)

RFC: Riaz Ahmed Gohar Shahi and associated pages

Hi, regarding the long-running content disputes over articles and pages relating to Riaz Ahmed Gohar Shahi, I have opened an WP:RFC. Please see: Talk:Riaz Ahmed Gohar Shahi#RFC: Long-running content disputes. Thanks, Esowteric+Talk 12:39, 8 March 2010 (UTC)

Titles and honorifics

I could see a lot of titles and Honorifics added in the article of hazrat Khwaaja Mueenuddin chisti Raziyalla. Though we are supposed to add them, i am afraid if wikipedia policies allow them? Kindly work on that article.Sarabsethh (talk) 06:44, 25 March 2010 (UTC)

I requested you, since you are a regular contributor to that article. Any updates on removing honorifics?Sarabsethh (talk) 09:42, 29 March 2010 (UTC)

If you're talking about Moinuddin Chishti, then at a glance the honorifics (I mean honorific prefixes or titles, not suffixes) are only mentioned once in the lead paragraph, and then he's referred to as 'Moinuddin Chishti'. I don't see anything wrong with that. Some use of honorifics is found in WP:MOSISLAM and WP:MOSBIO Esowteric+Talk 09:48, 29 March 2010 (UTC)

The article starts with "Sultan-ul-Hind, Hazrat Shaikh Khwaja Syed Muhammad Mu'īnuddīn Chishtī (Ajmeri)" which contains, titles and honorifics.

If that is allowed, its ok. I am sorry. Sarabsethh (talk) 13:33, 30 March 2010 (UTC)

Stop patronizing

I put some perfectly reasonable articles in Sufism which were part of the Sufi template. You said that me adding a Tariqah or sufi text section is 'pointless'. You said the same thing about me adding nasheed to the article but they are all part of Sufism. Could you explain yourself please besides saying its pointless or irrelevant?Iwanttoeditthissh (talk) 08:32, 4 May 2010 (UTC)

First of all, you should post Sufism related comments in Talk:Sufism, not here, so that the content is accessible to all editors of that article. I will copy these comments there, and encourage you to continue the discussion there if you wish, not here.

Any section you add needs to have some reasonable content to justify its inclusion. They may be part of Sufism, but the concepts, per se, are already accessible in the Sufism article. For example, the "Visitation" section already includes an internal link to Tariqah. Adding a section is justified only if there is some discussion of the concept of tariqah and its relevance to Sufism. Your sections were like place-markers with no meaningful content.

And perhaps it is relevant that I'm not the only editor who has reversed these edits of yours? --Sarabseth (talk) 23:42, 4 May 2010 (UTC)

Honorifics

Hi,

Already we have discussed! a lot regarding this and my intention is not to repeat this. Before you delete the honorific honorific kindly go through the following.

• http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Swami_Vivekananda#Moving_to_original_page_.27Vivekananda.27
• Swami Vivekananda, Saint Peter, Saint Joseph, Saint Matthew etc., cross check with any of the wikipedia administrators and then come to a conclusion and remove the honorifics in those pages. Wasifwasif (talk) 14:16, 17 May 2010 (UTC)

I have said this to you before: discussions relating to the editing of Madurai Maqbara should be carried out on Talk:Madurai Maqbara and not here.

From the Manual of Style:

Styles and honorifics related to clergy and royalty, including but not limited to His Holiness and Her Majesty, should not be included in the text inline but may be discussed in the article proper. Clergy should be named as described in Wikipedia:Naming conventions (clergy).

Where an honorific is so commonly attached to a name that the name is rarely found without it, it should be included. The honorific should be included for "Father Coughlin" (Charles Coughlin), the 1930s priest and broadcaster; Father Damien, the missionary in Hawaii; Father Divine, an American religious leader; Father Joseph, in 17th-century France; and Mother Teresa, a 20th-century humanitarian.

That's the explanation for all the four examples you cited. These people are universally known by those names. Not so the Sufi saints that Madurai Maqbara focuses on. For them, "Hazrat" is just a term of veneration used by devotees, and Wikipedia policy is to maintain a neutral POV by avoiding terms of veneration.

And I'm not sure what justification you are even offering for "Rali"

Once again, I will copy your comment and my response to Talk:Madurai Maqbara. --Sarabseth (talk) 14:43, 17 May 2010 (UTC)

hey sufism

The Sufism article has nothing on Sufi demographics, Can you make a heading with paragraph on this please? I think it would be a valuable addition. Iwanttoeditthissh (talk) 10:52, 23 May 2010 (UTC)

Are there any references you can point me to? Thanks! --Sarabseth (talk) 14:05, 23 May 2010 (UTC)

List of Pakistani qawwali singers

Hi. Please see WP:REDDEAL :

• "The subject of the red link may be covered on another edition of Wikipedia. If such an article meets the English-language Wikipedia criteria, then list it on Pages needing translation into English; if not, use a link to the article in the foreign-language version of Wikipedia instead of a red link.". - Can you provide me links to the Pakistani Wikipedia to the artists named in the list that don't exist here? Thank you, Maashatra11 (talk) 19:10, 13 July 2010 (UTC)
• See also : WP:Source list, WP:NLIST and WP:NOTDIR. Thank you. Maashatra11 (talk) 19:23, 13 July 2010 (UTC)

I don't believe there is any such thing as Pakistani Wikipedia.

And I'm not sure how you have concluded that the names on this list were culled from a foreign language version of Wikipedia. --Sarabseth (talk) 23:50, 13 July 2010 (UTC)

Name of Nusrat in Punjabi is compulsory because:-

Name of Nusrat in Punjabi:-1.Nusrat was born in Pakistani Punjab,where Punjabi is written in Shahmukhi script.2.Nusrat devoted his life for Punjabi sufi music and Punjabi songs,than why Nusrat s name should not be written Shahmukhi Punjabi?.3.Punjabi is punjabi! name in Gurumukhi script is secondary matter,of course it should be added along with shahmukhi.4.User Sarabseth should encourage name written in Shahmukhai rather than deletion becouse Nusrat and Shahmukhi script can not be parted.5.plz any one write in Gurumukhi also.Shemaroo (talk) 16:13, 26 August 2010 (UTC)

That's pretty incoherent, but I get the idea. Perhaps you should have explained your original edit a little better. It really wasn't clear that you meant the name that followed should be regarded as both Punjabi and Urdu. From your edit summary ("adding punjabi as he is punjabi,sung in punjabi,he is from punjab"), it sounded like you had added the word "Punjabi" to denote that Nusrat was a Punjabi. --Sarabseth (talk) 03:00, 27 August 2010 (UTC)

Hamza

The Hamza Yusuf page says he's sunni, but the Sufism [2] page says he's Sufi. Could you clarify please? Someone65 (talk) 02:11, 21 October 2010 (UTC)

Sunni and Sufi are not mutually exclusive terms. A Sufi can be either a Sunni or a Shia. (Not sure how helpful that was. If not, LMK, and I can try again.)

But if he is indeed a Sufi, it is strange that there's not one single reference to that on his own page. Perhaps he's not really a Sufi? --Sarabseth (talk) 14:50, 21 October 2010 (UTC)

Sani0346

Hi brother, I was updating the article on Ali Hujwiri from past few days. Even I spent more than 14 hours last night on this article. Full name in English & Farsi in the info box is basic part of that info box . In the section Lineage & Respect of Sufis towards Ali Hujwiri text in Farsi is necessary for the exact pronunciation of the names and verses otherwise it changes the meaning of those words. If you do not agree to some part you can discuss it with me. Sani0346 (talk) 16:21, 23 December 2010 (UTC)

You should post this on the Ali Hujwiri talk page, not here.

I have never seen either the full name or the Urdu/Farsi/Punjabi names in the infobox in other articles. See, for example, Fariduddin Ganjshakar, Moinuddin Chishti or Nizamuddin Auliya. I am, therefore, removing them again. You should leave it to other editors to adjudicate the matter if you continue to disagree.

I agree that having the verses in the Respect section is useful.

It is not the practice in other WP articles to translate the entire lineage like you did here. And your argument is hard to accept. It really doesn't facilitate correct pronunciation, I think. Anyone who can read the Farsi names already knows how to pronounce them. Besides, most of them are very common names; very few people who don't know Farsi will have trouble pronouncing them.

I will go head and copy both these comments to the Ali Hujwiri talk page. --Sarabseth (talk) 10:34, 24 December 2010 (UTC)

Rahat Fatah Ali Khan

Just because it is on one album it does not mean that is his correct name. Here are a few sources to show that Rahat Fateh Ali Khan's name is actually without "Nusrat" including track listings and his best of album(2010 release). Here is a recent article (2011) from Express Tribune which gives his name simply as Rahat Fateh Ali Khan - Rahat Fateh Ali rules Bollywood. Here is a track listing for a Bollywood album (on amazon): Love aaj kal another cd track listing: Soulful Sufi and here is the album cover of his compilation of Rahat The very best of Rahat Fateh Ali Khan released in July 2010!! Rzafar (talk) 18:22, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

1) It's not just one album. Every single album I have ever seen has his name as Rahat Nusrat Fateh Ali Khan.

2) The Express Tribune headline says "Rahat Fateh Ali". Does that mean we should also drop the Khan from his name?

3) Rhapsody lists him as "Rahat Nusrat Fateh Ali Khan":

4) This is from his biography at allmusic.com : "Rahat took Nusrat's first name in a traditional gesture of admiration of his master". Allmusic is a respected source. They didn't just make that up out of thin air. I think that quotation trumps your assertion that "Rahat Fateh Ali Khan has not added his uncle's name to his own." Some sources may get sloppy and abbreviate his name to Rahat Fateh Ali Khan, but that doesn't change the fact that he took Nusrat's name, and since then that has been his official stage name.

Am putting this response also on Talk:Rahat Fateh Ali Khan. --Sarabseth (talk) 00:43, 3 January 2011 (UTC)

On re-sorting categories in alphabetically order (Harmonium)

Hi, Sarabseth. Re-sorting categories in alphabetically order on Harmonium seems to be odd and inconvenient for readers who know about harmonium.

For example, instrument classification categories such as:

• Category:Free reed aerophones or Category:Sets of free reeds
• Category:Organs (music)
• Category:Keyboard instruments

follow widely accepted Musical instrument classification systems　(Note:at least three different classification systems are complementary coexistent on Wikipedia category). If these categories are grouped on sequence of categories (i.e. placed on top or tail), readers are comfortably navigated to hierarchy of instrument family.

On the other hands, ethnic music categories such as

• Category:Carnatic music instruments
• Category:Hindustani musical instruments
• Category:Indian musical instruments
• Category:Pakistani musical instruments

seem to be Indian subcontinent POV, because harmonium is widely used around the world.

Your alphabetic sorting ignore the difference of these two groups of category, and result seems to be inconvenient. You should admit the limit of your way. --Clusternote (talk) 04:25, 1 February 2011 (UTC)

I already explained my reasons in the edit summary, and really have nothing to add to that. Any ordering other than alphabetical becomes POV because it asserts a subjective personal opinion about what categories are more important.

The purpose of the category list is not, I think, to comfortably navigate readers in any given direction.

So are you saying that the existence of the existence of these 4 ethnic music categories is POV, or are you saying listing these existing categories here is POV?

I think that if there are categories for non-Indian musical instruments, they can be added. If there aren't, they can be created. But what categories should exist is a quite separate issue from how they should be ordered. --Sarabseth (talk) 11:27, 1 February 2011 (UTC)

Have copied this comment and my response to Talk: Harmonium, which is where it belongs. --Sarabseth (talk) 11:34, 1 February 2011 (UTC)

A request

Hi,

I have a request for you. Could you help to fix the article on Pankaj Mullick?

Thanks,

GhanaDa (talk) 23:52, 9 February 2011 (UTC)

Can try to take a look when I have time. No promises. --Sarabseth (talk) 12:21, 10 February 2011 (UTC)

Went in and did extensive editorial cleanup.--Sarabseth (talk) 14:27, 24 February 2011 (UTC)

Thank you for your help. GhanaDa (talk) 04:55, 27 February 2011 (UTC)

Nusrat Fateh Ali Khan's Wikiquote page

Recently i found that Nusrat Ji's wikiquotes page was marked for cleanup... Ihave tried to improve it myself.. but would request you to give a helping hand.Please consider this request. I firmly believe that your vast information in this field can let this page survive.Thanks in adavnce. AvnishIT (talk) 08:05, 24 February 2011 (UTC)

--124.123.105.151 (talk) 19:57, 1 May 2011 (UTC)I want to know were r u from. u seem to be showing so keen interest in ateeq hussain khan's page any particular reason sir.--124.123.105.151 (talk) 19:57, 1 May 2011 (UTC)

--124.123.105.151 (talk) 20:11, 1 May 2011 (UTC) My dear friend plz take this in a positive way if you are a really qawwali fan as told by you then why you quote so and so artist is ordinary. A good fan always provide encouragement and to criticize anybody without actual facts is not good. I mean to say if you are a big fan of nusrath it does not mean that other qawwali listeners can't be fan of other qawwal's. plz understand that talent is not on the same level for every artist but variety of talent should be there. plz dont take any offence from a qawwali fan.--124.123.105.151 (talk) 20:11, 1 May 2011 (UTC)

to sarabseth I was reading about you in detail

--124.123.105.151 (talk) 22:04, 1 May 2011 (UTC) dear sarabseth I feel really nice to say that it is through your knowledge and efforts many wikipedia article are in great form. I know you certainly hate puffery but I thank you for refining some articles and I agree with your corrections. plz carry on the good work thank q.--124.123.105.151 (talk) 22:04, 1 May 2011 (UTC)

to sarabseth I was reading about you in detail

--124.123.105.151 (talk) 22:04, 1 May 2011 (UTC) dear sarabseth I feel really nice to say that it is through your knowledge and efforts many wikipedia article are in great form. I know you certainly hate puffery but I thank you for refining some articles and I agree with your corrections. plz carry on the good work thank q.--124.123.105.151 (talk) 22:04, 1 May 2011 (UTC)

to sarabseth I was reading about you in detail

--124.123.105.151 (talk) 22:04, 1 May 2011 (UTC) dear sarabseth I feel really nice to say that it is through your knowledge and efforts many wikipedia article are in great form. I know you certainly hate puffery but I thank you for refining some articles and I agree with your corrections. plz carry on the good work thank q.--124.123.105.151 (talk) 22:04, 1 May 2011 (UTC)

I am impervious to both criticism and praise :)

It's not I who hate puffery, it's Wikipedia. There are Wikipedia policies regarding both tone and content of articles; puffery is a firm no-no. --Sarabseth (talk) 12:10, 2 May 2011 (UTC)

I want to know why you removed ateeq hussain khan name from the list of qawwals

--Ssabdulhaq (talk) 17:48, 4 May 2011 (UTC)why are you removing citation of the book jashn-e-dilli which has a summary on ateeq hussain khan. if u want proof i can send the book. and even you can see the online image on www.qawwal.in/Media.html here in this book by cultural department of Delhi has praise Ateeq hussain khan Bandanawazi as the Deyon of Sufiana Qawwali. You say he is not a notable Qawwal then let me know for you what is the conditon for notability. plz take this in good faith and let me know what proof you want and i can certainly forward news paper cuttings of those news papers which have poraised the bandanawazi qawwals. let us reach some conclussion on this matter. You can anytime reach me on my mail ssabdulhaq@GMAIL.COM. yOU ONLY ACCEPTED THAT Bandanawzi Qawwal are famous only in Hyderabad then how come the Maharashtra Government awarding them and whyt are they performing at common wealth Games.--Ssabdulhaq (talk) 17:48, 4 May 2011 (UTC)

Responded at Talk:Ateeq_Hussain_Khan.

(see section titled "I want to know why sarabseth removed ateeq hussain khan name from the list of qawwals") --Sarabseth (talk) 13:52, 5 May 2011 (UTC)

I thought that it may interest you to know that he and all of his socks are blocked. Logan _Talk ^{Contributions} 18:35, 11 May 2011 (UTC)

Thanks for letting me know!--Sarabseth (talk) 11:53, 12 May 2011 (UTC)

AFD

As you suggested, I've AFD'd the article here.--Epeefleche (talk) 22:44, 22 May 2011 (UTC)

Thanks! --Sarabseth (talk) 23:35, 22 May 2011 (UTC)

Someone also proposed speedy deletion, shortly after you AFD'd the article. --Sarabseth (talk) 23:41, 22 May 2011 (UTC)

I see that. It appears that at least one other editor confuses our effort to build a good project, with something other. I for one, and my guess is it is the same with you, will be happiest if the articles can be improved to the extent that they are notable within wp's criteria. But based on the IDONTLIKEIT reaction we've seen, that one editor doesn't care for the application of the criteria.--Epeefleche (talk) 23:47, 22 May 2011 (UTC)

take care of your words please.

Its not wise and advisable to use the word 'Guys' for the saints who are no more, as you did in the edit summary of the page Sufism. They night not be known or renowned to you. But disrespect is unacceptable. Wasifwasif (talk) 18:36, 23 June 2011 (UTC)

No disrespect was intended. "Guys" just means "people"; it's not disrespectful to call them people. I think you're being super-sensitive. And I certainly don't appreciate your lecturing and reproachful tone. --Sarabseth (talk) 18:44, 23 June 2011 (UTC)

hello Sarabseth

i am impressed by your Concept of love for Qawwalis & Sufi Music..

Can i have your e-mail id

I have a much better idea. Why don't you send me your name, address and phone number?

Warsi Brothers

Hi there, May you look into this articele Warsi Brothers, I am sure there can be lot to be written on them. The problem is, I could find the references in urdu. If you may improve it will be a great help, Regards.--Omer123hussain (talk) 20:38, 19 August 2011 (UTC)

I'm traveling for the next 8 or 9 days. And if there aren't any English references, I'm not sure what I can do. But I will look into it at some point. --Sarabseth (talk) 03:24, 22 August 2011 (UTC)

You've got mail

Hi Sarabseth, I've added to the discussion at Bulleh Shah. Please take a look. Regards basalisk (talk) 11:03, 8 October 2011 (UTC)

Hi, it's me again. That editor persists in adding that cruft into Bulleh Shah; would you request semi-protection? Thanks Basalisk ^{inspect damage}⁄_berate 20:24, 10 October 2011 (UTC)

Strike that, I've figured it out and done it myself. Basalisk ^{inspect damage}⁄_berate 20:30, 10 October 2011 (UTC)

Bulleh Shah

Hi again. Sorry about the messed-up revert on this article, meant to remove it all and somehow ended up re-instating it. Was just wondering at what point we should consider taking this back to the admin who protected the page last time? Basalisk ^{inspect damage}⁄_berate 10:31, 15 October 2011 (UTC)

Do you have any idea why it was suddenly unprotected? --Sarabseth (talk) 10:52, 15 October 2011 (UTC)

Bulleh Shah

Hi there, if you take a look at the sentence you just reverted on this article, it now makes no sense. I reinstated the bit about Sikh gurus using his poetry because a previous editor removed it without explanation. I've reverted it again because I assume you made a mistake, but if you disagree then go ahead and revert it once more and I won't touch it. Regards Basalisk ^{inspect damage}⁄_berate 11:52, 1 November 2011 (UTC)

Sorry! I was seriously confused. I looked at the previous editor's change and thought I was looking at the last change. --Sarabseth (talk) 12:23, 1 November 2011 (UTC)

Categories on Aziz Mian article

Hi Sarabseth! I see you reverted my edit on Aziz Mian. I had removed Category:Sufi music because it appears to be redundant. The article already has Category:Pakistani qawwali singers, which is a sub-category of Category:Performers of Sufi music, which is a sub-category of Category:Sufi music. Thanks! GoingBatty (talk) 05:23, 7 December 2011 (UTC)

That makes perfect sense. Sorry! --Sarabseth (talk) 10:30, 7 December 2011 (UTC)

Thanks for the reply. I reinstated my edit on Aziz Mian, and will look to see if any other pages in Category:Sufi music should have their categories improved. Thanks! GoingBatty (talk) 17:51, 7 December 2011 (UTC)

Hello. You have a new message at GoingBatty's talk page. GoingBatty (talk) 02:19, 14 December 2011 (UTC)

Hello. You have a new message at GoingBatty's talk page. GoingBatty (talk) 18:41, 16 December 2011 (UTC)

Ateeq Hussain Khan Bandanazi is a famous Sufi Qawwal of India

sir, I want to establish that he truly is notable qawwal and for this I want to present facts to certain my claim in this regard I require your help. What is actually required to be presented to prove my case plz let me know . Morever Bandanawazi qawwal ustad amjad ali khan was raj durbari gayak of gwalior and he was entitled Faqr-e-Hind by nizam of hyderabad. The bandanawazi also awarded sangeet prabhakar award by chief minister of andhra pradesh. they were also awarded central zone award by govt of Maharashtra. Recieve nomination for Padma Sree for classical qawwali singing. I may be not presenting my case well so finally i am requesting you to plz provide me requirement of evidence that bandanawazi qawwal recieved recognition for good qawwali singing. I can mail you photos of awards recieved which are already there on thier website. www.qawwal.in I understand your good concern. plz oblige — Preceding unsigned comment added by 124.123.121.199 (talk) 11:41, 7 December 2011 (UTC)

Ustad Amjad Ali Khan's awards or achievements are hardly relevant to Ateeq Hussain Khan's case.

"Sangeet prabhakar" and "central zone award" are very minor awards. Being nominated for Padma Shree is not really an achievement; if they had received the award, it would be a different mater, but they didn't.

You may be a huge fan, but there simply doesn't seem to be any evidence of the sort of recognition that would establish their notability for more objective editors. --Sarabseth (talk) 12:03, 7 December 2011 (UTC)

Nastaliq font

Salam,

I noticed that you are using a nastaliq font in some articles. Which one are you using and from where may I obtain it? Jemiljan (talk) 17:46, 10 December 2011 (UTC)

Sorry, can't help. The font was added by other people. I've only done very minor cut-and-paste edits. --Sarabseth (talk) 18:07, 10 December 2011 (UTC)

Thanks. I've posted a query about this. Interesting to see usage of it, as most Perso-Arabic script fonts are standard naskh, not nastaliq fonts. Not that I'm opposed... Jemiljan (talk) 23:13, 11 December 2011 (UTC)

What do you reckon?

Regarding this edit, how do you think WP:ALLEGED relates here? Basalisk ^{inspect damage}⁄_berate 19:25, 27 December 2011 (UTC)

Hi there!

Doesn't really offer guidance on the use of "known", does it? But how would you feel if we made it: "A large amount of what is believed to be known about Bulleh Shah comes through legends..."?

Thanks! --Sarabseth (talk) 20:03, 27 December 2011 (UTC)

Yeah, that's good. Sorry to be pedantic; what you've suggested above just "feels" more encyclopaedic than what we've got currently. Or you could write "A large amount of what is believed to be true about Bulleh Shah comes through legends…". Either is good. Basalisk ^{inspect damage}⁄_berate 20:08, 27 December 2011 (UTC)

Known feels better than true to me, so I'm going with "A large amount of what is believed to be known about Bulleh Shah...". Feel free to change the known to true if you like. --Sarabseth (talk) 20:47, 27 December 2011 (UTC)

i need ur email address

i need ur email address plz. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 124.123.100.65 (talk) 18:49, 28 December 2011 (UTC)

You'll have to do a lot better than that. Why? And who are you? --Sarabseth (talk) 19:01, 28 December 2011 (UTC)

Lol. That is all. Actually, can I have your bank details? And car keys? Basalisk ^{inspect damage}⁄_berate 19:04, 28 December 2011 (UTC)

Re: Collapsed templates in Qawwali

Actually, the template Islamic culture is collapsed, but the image part is visible for some reason I don't know. I collapsed all the three templates, because when I included the only relevant media file on the page, they were disturbing the layout of the page and reducing the readability. Most articles don't have such a problem, because either they have only 1-2 sidebar templates, or their size is long enough to allow more than 2 sidebar templates. If you can adjust the location of the templates to make sure that they don't disturb the article flow/layout while making them uncollapsed, please go ahead. Another alternative would be to include (only) the music genres in the template Template:South Asian Music. utcursch | talk 12:44, 30 December 2011 (UTC)

i want to constribute huge donations $ to you for adding name in current qawwal list for a right candidate

I want to constribute 1000$ to you for adding name in current qawwal list of my favourite qawwal certainly a right candidate. I can offer huge amount to you for helping me in my regard u can email me at videoshooterz@gmail.com. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 124.123.100.65 (talk) 11:08, 19 January 2012 (UTC)

Go fuck a duck --Sarabseth (talk) 11:11, 19 January 2012 (UTC)

Seriously, who is this guy? Basalisk ^{inspect damage}⁄_berate 12:43, 19 January 2012 (UTC)

Check him out here.--Sarabseth (talk) 10:37, 20 January 2012 (UTC)

May you enjoy it

• Though it is not suitable place,but please enjoy This.Cheers.Justice007 (talk) 15:18, 27 January 2012 (UTC)

Muhammed al-Ahari

Your source for Muhammed al-Ahari is not a reliable source (effectively a forum). Please find a reliable source or do not use that paragraph. Please see wp:rs and wp:citing sources. Such usage might be construed a violation of wp:blp. Also, please be civil. Thank you Jim1138 (talk) 05:47, 9 February 2012 (UTC)

I wasn't aware that I had been uncivil. Could you let me know what you think was uncivil?

So his own statement on the Talk page cannot be regarded as reliable? --Sarabseth (talk) 05:54, 9 February 2012 (UTC)

No. It can't. It's a serious violation of WP:BLP and looks to be personally vindictive on your part. You have some good points about the editor's behavior, which I plan to address on the talk page after looking everything over. Don't sabotage that discussion by putting me in a position where I have to block you. -- Atama頭 08:22, 11 February 2012 (UTC)

If his own Talk page statement cannot be regarded as a reliable source, then clearly my use of it was wrong. I'm sorry for that, and I'll stay away from this article from now on. But I'm not sure I understand what makes my edits vindictive. Mr. al-Ahari made a clearly homophobic statement; I accurately recorded his views on homosexuality in the article (without any commentary of my own). I didn't attack him in any way, shape or form.

Also, could you please let me know what section of WP:BLP I should look at, to understand why using his own Talk page statement is not okay?

Thanks for taking the time to look at and deal with this! --Sarabseth (talk) 05:28, 12 February 2012 (UTC)

ANI Noticeboard

Hello. This message is being sent to inform you that there is currently a discussion at Wikipedia:Administrators'_noticeboard/Incidents#Deleted_Talk_Page_Entry_Too-_Article_Kabir regarding for deleting talk page entry. The thread is Deleted Talk Page Entry Too- Article Kabir.The discussion is about the topic Topic. Thank you.
--Tito Dutta (Send me a message) 04:40, 24 February 2012 (UTC)

• This edit, removing Titodutta's section from the talkpage is a clear violation of talk page guidelines. Do not remove any comments from talkpages unless they clearly meet the criteria given in those guidelines. Yoenit (talk) 13:02, 24 February 2012 (UTC)

My apologies. (I also responded at Wikipedia:Administrators'_noticeboard/Incidents#Deleted_Talk_Page_Entry_Too-_Article_Kabir). --Sarabseth (talk) 02:18, 25 February 2012 (UTC)

Hi, I have posted in the same section --Tito Dutta (Send me a message) 05:05, 25 February 2012 (UTC)

Hyderabadi Haleem

Hi, Today I would likely apply Hyderabadi Haleem for the good article nomination, Please update if you have any concerns to improve/expand the article, Regards :)--Omer123hussain (talk) 09:32, 29 May 2012 (UTC)

Made some improvements to the opening para. Good luck! --Sarabseth (talk) 13:48, 29 May 2012 (UTC)

Thanks dude !!!! :)--Omer123hussain (talk) 19:38, 29 May 2012 (UTC)

Heads up! New message!

You have at least one new message here: Talk:Kabir#Problems_in_the_article.21 --Tito Dutta ✉ 06:02, 12 July 2012 (UTC)

Heads up on July 15

You have at least one new message in Talk:Kabir#Reliable_source.E2.80.93_Books.E2.80.93_HTH.21 --Tito Dutta ✉ 15:34, 15 July 2012 (UTC)

Archive

I have added auto archive code in this edit. Feel free to change there! --Tito Dutta ✉ 20:20, 15 July 2012 (UTC)

Please don't message me here about edits you make to Kabir or Talk:Kabir. I will see these edits on my watchlist. --Sarabseth (talk) 14:29, 16 July 2012 (UTC)

Bulleh Shah

With reference to your action of: (Undid revision 526867191 by Faizanal-badri (talk) already in article, not necessary in infobox) at Bulleh Shah Bro, as you know i added "Now Pakistan", for the places of birth and death of Baba Bulleh Shah, and you removed them with the reason of "not necessary", if its not necessary then for every page in the Wikipedia, it should be like that, but its not!

Regards, FaizanAl-Badri — Preceding unsigned comment added by Faizanal-badri (talk • contribs) 11:50, 10 December 2012 (UTC)

What I said was it's not necessary in the infobox; it is already in the article. (It's better to post such things on the article's talk page.) --Sarabseth (talk) 12:22, 10 December 2012 (UTC)

The Ghumaris

Regarding removal of Ahmad al-Ghumari and Abdullah al-Ghumari from the Sufism article: I think it might be a bit of a semantic issue. Both of them are in the categories for Muslim scholars, and their Sufi tariqa - Siddiqi, which is a branch of Shadhili - is named after their family. Their nasab is Ibn Muhammad Ibn al-Siddiq. If you prefer that this be directly reflected in the lead then no problem, and perhaps they are not as known to practitioners of Sufism in India/Pakistan, but per the citations found on Sufi websites around the web (not all are included in the articles for these individuals for various reasons), I am sure you will find that they are respected scholars of Sufism in addition to hadith. Additionally, I will soon be creating a Wikipedia page for their Siddiqiyya order, which has already been listed in red type on the list of Sufi orders but I suppose noone has taken the time to create such an article yet. I'm looking for feedback here as I want to improve the articles for these individuals. If their status within Moroccan Sufism isn't clear from the articles, then your feedback can help change that. MezzoMezzo (talk) 12:52, 28 January 2013 (UTC)

Please discuss this on the Talk age, not here. Their Wikipedia articles don't say or suggest that they are Sufi scholars. If they are indeed Sufi scholars, you should first add that to their articles (with proper sourcing, of course). --Sarabseth (talk) 13:03, 28 January 2013 (UTC)

Alright, the issue can be hammered out on the talk page. I hope you'll participate in the process as well. MezzoMezzo (talk) 03:29, 29 January 2013 (UTC)

Sufism template

If you get the time, could you also check out the talk page for Template:Sufism? I feel the template is a bit bloated and unsightly, and contradictory in that under the list for "notable" Sufis, they don't just include the most notable but seemingly every Sufi with a page on Wikipedia. I would like to see if more than just myself feels this way. MezzoMezzo (talk) 11:03, 9 February 2013 (UTC)

Will take a look, thanks! --Sarabseth (talk) 23:41, 11 February 2013 (UTC)

Can you answer the question

here?

Don't know enough to answer that; sorry! --Sarabseth (talk) 05:40, 10 March 2013 (UTC)

Recent Edits to Nusrat Fateh Ali Khan Page

Please help in resolving in recent edit wars on intro lines of NFAK, check the page history for details AvnishIT (talk) 01:49, 23 August 2013 (UTC)

I've retired from Wikipedia :), but I'll take a look... --Sarabseth (talk) 22:49, 29 August 2013 (UTC)

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